Friday, June 06, 2008

peacenik supported terrorists pussies, murder innocents again

as repeated several times in this blog, criminal thugs of the ltte will continue to kill as long as they exist ( as happened today). these killings and bombings happened before and during so called ceasefire (from day one), it is happening now, and will continue.

there will not be peace as long as they exist. there will not be respect for human rights , justice, democracy, or freedom, as long as they exist.

only corrupt, hypocritical, and criminal, (or in case of a few, plain stupid and extremely naive) peaceniks will believe otherwise. only racists (including almost all peaceniks ) believe ltte represents tamils, instead of being a despicable armed criminal gang.

any honest, rational, and pragmatic, examination of the ltte terrorist behavior, history, and situation, makes it clear that there is only one course open to sri lankans who want human rights, justice, democracy, and freedom, to prevail (and to live) ; try to defeat ltte terrorists ( in the sense of reducing their power to control sri lankans, if not total elimination) using legitimate violence if need be .

-
by peaceniks i mean people who believe "peace" is worth any cost, even cost of human rights , justice, democracy, or freedom. specifically human right violating criminals like paikiasothy saravanamuttu, jehan perera, jayadeva uyangoda, sunila abeysekera, sunanda deshapriya, sunila abeysekera, nimalka fernando, rohan edirisinha, jeevan thiagarajaha, and their ilk (and their underlings like sanjana hattotuwa).

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Violence begets violence. Where will stop?

Chanuka said...

What is your problem? You are not a peacenik. Means you want war, not peace. So you got it, in wholesale.

Why rant?

You should be happy.

thekillromeoproject said...

Stop the rants online and get ur ass up to the FDL....!!!

Thats if you have the BALLS to do that....!!

tinker said...

this is not about going to the FDL..(we have a proper Army-they can take care of the FDL) its more about going to Foundation for Co-exsistance, NPC,CPA , INFORM,FMM and WMC etc and ask them why they keep silent on LTTEs' campaign against innocent civilians of Sri Lanka..

this is not about BALLS , its more about freedom...its about doing what ever you can to stop people getting killed like dogs for no obvious reason and some people may find it bit bizzar to hear people talking against the LTTE...

but then we all know 'Chanuka' and 'thekillromeoproject' are very peace loving rich kids, thats why both don't want any thing bad being said against the LTTE.

Jack Point said...

How many bombs under CFA? How many boms now? How many killed under CFA how many now?

War is hell.

Better the imperfect peace than no peace.

Nishadha said...

I thought bombs didn't go off in during the peace process.
I believe in the peace process , but for it to work we need to limit the fighting capacity of the LTTE. I believe the GOSL is doing the correct thing with the war but they need to come up with a political solution at the end of the war.Already there's violence in the eastern province , which I believe in because of no proper political solution.
Also I find it rather strange you naming people why you are hidden behind a alias

thekillromeoproject said...

@ Tinker,

I find it amusing how you seem to "know" me. While you're quite wrong in assuming I'm a rich kid, You're very right in assumuing I'm a peace loving person.... that's exactly why I'm against this so called "war in order to achieve peace" that the government is pushing down my throat.

It's pure idiocy to support this on going killing. At the end of the day, Sri Lankans have been dying for 30 years!!

It's definitely time for the war mongers to move over and give peace a chance in this country of ours.

I also find it very amusing that you feel the need to rant about the atrocities and how patriotic you are.....but draw the line at joining up and serving your country.... :)

sittingnut said...

anon at 6/06/2008 9:23 AM
Violence begets violence. Where will stop?
good question. where has it ever stopped? never. violence is a fact of this world.

anyway this is about specific cases of violence in the real world. not philosophical generalities in utopias.

in real world we do not have the luxury of choosing between non violence and violence. at most we have the choice between suffering (and letting innocents suffer) while doing nothing and trying our best to get rid of the cause for that suffering ( using violence ourselves in the process if need be)

here and now, we have to be honest to ourselves about what is happening, examine the facts, and do what is possible and pragmatic according to the principles of justice, human rights etc.
that leave only one option realistically - defeat ltte using violence if needs be

if you think any other option is possible realistically, argue that case rationally ( instead of uttering platitudes )

--

chanuka:
it is clear that you have not read and understood or is incapable of rational argument

i am stating the facts . if you have any rational arguments please advance them ( otherwise you can again write another irrational comment)

to help you, here are my arguments( in question form so that your limited faculties can focus and understand then better)

1. given history of ltte do you believe ltte's killings and violations of human rights , etc. will stop as long as they exist? if so what are your grounds for thinking so?

2. is there any other realistic option other than trying to defeat ltte ( with violence if need be? ) to anyone who respects human rights ? what is it? on what grounds do you think it will work?

3. do you want a "peace" bought at the expense of human right, justice, freedom, and democracy? how is that better than war? and do you think such a peace is sustainable?


if you want a rational discussion please answer.

the choice before us is not between war and peace as you seem to believe . war will be there as long as ltte exits . do run way from that fact

--
thekillromeoproject

Stop the rants online and get ur ass up to the FDL....!!!
Thats if you have the BALLS to do that....!!
//
rant about the atrocities and how patriotic you are.......draw the line at joining up and serving your country..


you too like chanuka above cannot face reason or facts so take refuge in unreason and half baked arguments.

if you are rational person willing to face facts, instead of intellectually dishonest person, you will realize that whether i go to "fdl" is irrelevant. ( in any case you do not know whether i have actually been at fdl or done something similar ) .

to explain further why your argument is silly-
first, 2+2 is 4, whether or not my favorite number is 4. similarly my arguments are valid whether or not i personally am in the military. ( if you think otherwise please be free to raise rational objections )

second, are you saying that if i am in the military and make the same arguments, they are right ? well many people in the militray ( for instance the army commander ) make similar arguments about need to defeat ltte.

hopefully next time you will not resort to such stupid arguments.

-

I'm against this so called "war in order to achieve peace" that the government is pushing down my throat....It's definitely time for the war mongers to move over and give peace a chance in this country of ours.

could you please elaborate on your preferred method of dealing with ltte?
appeasement? while forgetting about the suffering of people under ltte? while forgetting those who are threatened by ltte and letting them be killed as happened during cfa?
in other words forgetting about human rights, justice, democracy, and freedom of fellow sri lankans so that you have "peace" on colombo?
is that what you prefer?
and what makes you think appeasement will work when it has not worked before with ltte and elsewhere the world ?

expect rational arguments you you are capable of them.
.
you speak as if we have any choice but to fight ltte. the choice is not between peace and war but giving into ltte atrocities ( thus approving them as peaceniks do ) or trying our best to get rid of the ltte as far as possible

unless you elaborate a clear and pragmatic alternative way to deal with ltte, your rejection of "war" is hypocritical and intellectually dishonest .


--

tinker :
thanks for the comment.
agree with all your points ( except may be "rich kid" thing but those two deserves that :-))

--
jack point:
How many bombs under CFA?
so you are again suffering another bout of pro terrorist amnesia ?
when was the kebbitigollewa bus bomb? during cfa ? why do you always forget all those killings that took place under cfa?

How many boms now? How many killed under CFA how many now?
so you want to make it a quantitative argument?
are you saying we can live with less number of bombs ? how many less be specific? how may killings of innocents by ltte are you willing to tolerate in the name of "peace" in colombo? give a number since you prefer quantities.

are you saying that we should forget about the oppression hundreds of thousands of people in north and east provinces and those who are individually targeted by ltte elsewhere as long as we have less bombs in colombo?
are you saying we have to do anything ltte demands, so that they will explode less bombs here?

well all i can say is - god help your friends and relatives, because you will be the first bail out on them.
-
Better the imperfect peace than no peace.
imperfect peace is no peace, unless you believe some lives are worth more than others( and want to put a number on that worth ) , and want to sacrifice other people (esp those in north and east provinces and those who are individually targeted by ltte) so that you do not see bombs in colombo. and want to obey ltte in all things so that they do not explode bombs in colombo

fact is as long as ltte exits it will kill and bomb . you are free to forget that fact and live in a cocoon.

hopefully you will answer these questions instead of running away as you did before. but then you will run and leave your friends and relatives to suffer don't you ?
--

nishadha :
Also I find it rather strange you naming people why you are hidden behind a alias
i have dealt with this ignorant argument before in this blog , be good as to find the facts by reading those posts before writing.

anyway as i have said before, my name is no secret, it is available to anyone who ask that from me ( as some of the named have done) through email on a reciprocal basis.

I thought bombs didn't go off in during the peace process.
bombs ( such as kebitigolewa bus bomb) did go off during cfa, assassinations took place , and people in east and north provinces were oppressed during so called peace process. why do you forget? do answer that

they need to come up with a political solution at the end of the war
nobody has right to say what is the political solution at this point. all government can do is a pr job.

as i have said elsewhere in this blog a real political solutions will emerge only after there are legitimate democaratic representatives of peopel in north and east and they arrive at a compromise after dealing with other representatives of other interest groups in sri lanka. (btw this may not satisfy them. but that is how democracy works. not everyone get everything )

lready there's violence in the eastern province , which I believe in because of no proper political solution.
violence due to unsatisfactory political solutions should not be tolerated . any more than thievery due to poverty

Jack Point said...

"so you are again suffering another bout of pro terrorist amnesia ?
when was the kebbitigollewa bus bomb? during cfa ? why do you always forget all those killings that took place under cfa?"

Numbers man, numbers are what matter. A handful of attacks and killings. The scale now is quite different, there have been more killed in the last six month than during the whole of the CFA.

Peacenik I may be, Terrorist-sympathiser I may be; fool I am not.

sittingnut said...

.Numbers man, numbers are what matter. A handful of attacks and killings.?

handful ? really how many fingers do your hand have? hundreds?
anyway you think it is acceptable to bargain with lives? as i said before do you think that some lives are worth more than others ? give clear answer why run away like a fool and coward ?

how many people were condemned to live without their basic rights (that you enjoy even now ) under ltte during cfa ? hundreds of thousands .

you are free to believe that your cocoon safety is worth the blood and rights of thousands, most sri lankans are better ( an know better ) than that. thank god

they are also more intelligent than you . they know that as long as ltte exits (peace or war) killings will continue. do you deny that ? and continue to call yourself no fool? :-)

; fool I am not.
a fool you are ( in addition to being an amnesiac who forget facts that shed bad light on ltte terrorists ) and disgustingly immoral and unrealistic one at that

Nim said...

Well said sittingnut! The fucks who sit in their offices in Colombo and justifying LTTE attacks like the NPC et all should be sent air dropped into the Vanni.

Venison said...

hey, thekillromeoproject, why don't you stop writing your gay ass 'poetry' before preaching to others to stop saying what's on their mind.

Or better yet, go and join your child abusing second cousin priest in Australia.

sittingnut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sittingnut said...

nim:
thanks for the comment. :-)

=
venison:

thanks for the comment, but may be just go easy on personal insults. :-)

==
use insults that are relevant to the topic if you will. of course that is a judgment call on your part i will not judge or censor.

everyone, whatever their beliefs, are free to express themselves here. and everyone is expected to rationally and vigorously defend their positions.

lets see whether this "thekillromeoproject" fellow has the capacity? instead of taking refuge in irrational and stupid arguments as he did above

mixedblessings89 said...

http://themoonandthemouse.blogspot.com/

I wonder what you make of this blogger?

Read a few of the posts befpre replying, alright?

sittingnut said...

interesting blog . creative too, worth reading. thanks for bringing my attention to it :-)
as far as i can judge from, what i read so far, politically that blogger seem to subscribe varied and confused set of beliefs both rational and irrational .
will probably comment on them in the future there


btw nice posts and photos on your own blog

Gini Appu said...

Sittingnut is excellent with sticks and stones but short on original thought. How about some practical suggestions (" kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out" isn't very original - the yanks tried it a few times) to fix the problem.

That said, Appu is no fan of the peace industry. The 'war' is raison d'etre for the peace industry. What would those barefoot shoulder bag carrying, jesus sandal wearing, workshop organising peaceniks do for a living if the war stopped? Thye are just as bad as the Rajapakses, Daluwattes and Fonsekas who see gold in them thar pools of blood!

sittingnut said...

gini appu:
you only display that you have not read my posts and that you have severe limitation when using logic

like all people who jump to silly unfounded conclusions you say i say
"kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out" isn't very original - the yanks tried it a few times"
and then accuse me of being unoriginal.

where did i say anything like that or say anything implying that?
why cant you quote me when accusing me of unoriginality?
do answer :-)
don't argue against fantasies about my sayings of your own creation, you may be termed a madman

i have said in detail what i think will happen elsewhere in blog ( follow the links in the post ) that may be original or unoriginal, but the fact remain that we sri lankans who respect human rights, justice, democracy or freedom, have no other option but to try to defeat ltte terrorists
do you agree or not ?

whether or not "Rajapakses, Daluwattes and Fonsekas ... see gold" in war is besides the point ( if you have specific accusations with evidence against them why don't you make them public, same with their incompetence if any
.
point i am making is that regardless of that we have to defeat ltte in any case using violence if need be . if you think there are other realistic alternatives why not articulate that ?

you do not do that . if you are not intellectually dishonest ,you have to do that before you criticize people who have selected (the only) available rational / moral option.

Victor said...

Successive Sri Lankan governments, the International Community and most of all the NGO brigade have made the mistake of thinking that the LTTE can change.

The truth is it cannot. It is only interested in one aim: creating a separate country out of Sri Lankan territory. It will do ANYTHING to realise that. Taking part in peace talks is just a time buying exercise the LTTE engages in from time to time to replenish and revive itself for another bout of fighting.

The LTTE has walked away from EVERY SINGLE PEACE TALK. Even under pussy boy Ranil's tenure where he bent over and bared his ass to satisfy the LTTE, who walked away from the peace table? Yep, the LTTE.

Thekillromeoproject is just another dumb shit who thinks that sucking LTTE cock will bring peace. Yeah, maybe for a while you twat, but then they'll run off from the peace table and start their bombing and killing again - like they have done in the past.

I bet if you were Churchill you would have bought a one way ticket to Berlin, crawled under Hitler's table and sucked his dick day in day out in exchange for no bomb attacks on London.

The same goes for "Chanuka" and "jack point" and rest of the dickwads mentioned in your post Sittingnut.

Gini Appu said...

Sittingnut - the "let god sort 'em out" was a reference to your refusal to examine the details and not a verbatim quote from one of your blogs!

I fully agree that the LTTE is a blight on the nation and should ideally be wiped out. The fact, is that it is not only easier said than done but that the LTTE depends on such "wipe out" attempts to survive - without war the LTTE becomes irrelevant to everybody, especially to the Tamils in Sri Lanka and abroad.

I'm glad you count yourself amongst the Sri Lankans who "respect human rights, justice, democracy or freedom" - 'coz you couldn't then possibly advocate state sponsored terror, abductions, murders, assaults, etc.

Presumably, you would also not distinguish between the majority or minorty communities when you "respect human rights, justice, democracy or freedom" ??

IMHO, the LTTE is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. Lets not kid ourselves with hacked stories of "some of our best friends are tamil" and that "tamils and sinhalese live happily and peacefully" together or that "lakshman kadirgamar was a tamil." Drive past the tamil wheeler dealers at the Cinnamon Grand and R&B and go to Anderson Flats or Kotahena or even Wellawatte and ask the Tamils who live there if they live there happily and securely. Ask the tamil speaking Moratuwa University students what life has been like for them. They fear their government in all its permutations, from the cops at the checkpoint to the grama sevaka to the sla chaps who bang on the doors at night to the all important peon at the entrance to every government department. Unfortunately, they don't have a choice. Their fate would be worse if they lived in the war zone - for their lives would be under seige from the LTTE and the SLA, if they escape the bombings.

The day that we stop thinking that Sri Lankan = Sinhalese is the first day of the last days of the LTTE.

Neither the leeches in the peace industry nor the looters in the war industry (not a big difference) will bring peace and prosperity to sri lanka. As sri lankans, we need to think about the crap that our leaders shove down our throats and only then would we stop asking for more...
http://parippuplease.blogspot.com/

Keep Nohair said...

Victor... lolz

if you were a white van, you'd be accused of a conspiracy to bring the government into disrepute.

all power to you bro! fight on!

chuckle chuckle :-)

Gini Appu said...

Sittingnut... I apologise for not answering your question more directly and so here it is: "Yes, I agree we have to defeat the LTTE."

Where we disagree, is in the means to that end.

History is a good teacher but Sri Lankans seem to ignore history, unless its glorious. Velu counts on us continuing to do so. He knows we'd alwasy ask for more...
http://parippuplease.blogspot.com/

mixedblessings89 said...

Thanks for the compliments.

We've heard about another blast in SL. The news here is that 22 or 23 people are dead. How bad is it?

You read the posts on my blog, or did you just check out the pics?

Oh, and, what is the FDL, exactly?

Whoever said...

hey fag boy gini appu, do you think the arabs in the USA are living happily and securely? They have their phones tapped, racially profiled, hate attacks, mosques bombed, denied entry to some schools - the list goes on. Why? Because two crazy arabs drove two planes into the twin towers.

Meanwhile in Sri Lanka crazy Tamils have been bombing, killing and butchering for more than 25 years. So yeah FUCKING DUH, they better be checked well at all checkpoints. Who is more likely to blow themselves up to bits and everyone around them - a Tamil or a Sinhalese? Who is more likely to leave a bomb on a bus? A Tamil or a Sinhalese? Who is more likely to attack the airport and blow planes to bits? A Sinhalese or a Tamil? Seriously, why the fuck should Sinhalese and Muslims be under the same sort of suspicion as Tamils are? Yeah, maybe in an ideal utopian world, but fucking wake up dude!

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Tamil speaking Moratuwa University Students" were behind the latest attack. What I know is that many Tamils are celebrating this attack (read the defencenet blog), I bet a few of those "Tamil Speaking Moratuwa University Students" lit firecrackers, just like some of the "Tamil speaking Peradeniya University Students" did when Elephant Pass fell and Colombo was attacked by air.

Tamils will feel more secure when they rise up against the LTTE and speak against its atrocities. Only a solitary few like Anandasangaree have the balls to get up and condemn what the LTTE does. Until then, they deserve every little suspicion they get. Silence is a form of approval.

sittingnut said...

Victor :
Successive Sri Lankan governments, the International Community and most of all the NGO brigade have made the mistake of thinking that the LTTE can change.
right you are . ( same with rest of comment)
"thekillromeoproject" is probably as dumb as you say
but the question is wether in some cases ( as with senior ngos peaceniks ) it is a mistake or a deliberate dishonesty. after all they are aware what ltte is and it history . one has to be extremely stupid or ignorant to make that mistake or extremely criminal.


gini appu:
Sittingnut - the "let god sort 'em out" was a reference to your refusal to examine the details and not a verbatim quote from one of your blogs!
don't run, admit your mistake
or as i said, quote anything similar implying such sentiment by me ( i don't need a verbatim quote, and btw specify what are details i fail to examine). fact is you imagined my sentiments based on your superficial reading of this post.

without war the LTTE becomes irrelevant to everybody, especially to the Tamils in Sri Lanka and abroad.
really how exactly does this irrelevance happen? may be people fired on will not die ? people denied justice and human rights will get them in spite of ltte ? how? do give details how this happen? you should be able to if you are not living on fantasy world. :-)

your mistake is that you take ltte's fascist oppressive control of tamils in north and east and its propaganda for real support by tamils for ltte.
do not subsribe to such racist beliefs. just think of one instance, wanni voters in 2005 election did not vote bc they were prevented from voting by ltte, not bc they did not want to vote. and if ltte is not defeated militarily that will be their fate long in to their future. disagree with that ?
perhaps you don't know but there are lots of fascist regimes that did not fall by themselves. ltte allowed to do as it wish, will fall and go in to irrelevance, as you say, only after several generations of atrocities ( like ussr ). is that what you advocate?


do answer with details. :-)

'coz you couldn't then possibly advocate state sponsored terror, abductions, murders, assaults, etc.
no i dont advocate such things. since you imply i do, please quote where have i advocated such? do quote one sentence from me implying that. or clearly say you don't think i have advocated any such thing. why do you take refuge in such silly fantasy arguments?.

as i said don't jump to silly conclusions like a crazy person because you have nor read what i have actually written

Presumably, you would also not distinguish between the majority or minorty communities when you "respect human rights, justice, democracy or freedom" ??
again you display your ignorance and fantasies about my writing
i advocate defeat of ltte to advance cause of respect human rights, justice, democracy or freedom for all sri lankans not limited to any community . so i cannot see why you imply i say otherwise. if you are not implying that say so clearly.

if you read this blog ( instead of jumping to crazy fantasies ) , you will find that i make point of calling people, racists when they show the least sign of racism. and i believe i have not said or held any belief remotely racist. if you think otherwise do quote me instead witting such silly stuff

( in order to get rid of your silly fantasies about my thinking i will answer the following in more detail )
the LTTE is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
may be. ( in the limited sense that ltte uses tamil problems for its propaganda)
as have explained before, tamil problems and grievances do not necessarily result in ltte atrocities. to say that is racist and as stupid as saying poverty causes theft . thieves should be subjected justice and even violence have to be used to arrest them. and poverty is no excuse. similarity tamil problems and grievances are not justification for ltte and should not prevent people who respect human rights etc. from advocating defeat of ltte using violence if needs be

as i said several times here and elsewhere( which again you did not read), solution to tamil problems and grievances can only be achieved through democratic means and that requires legitimate democratic representatives . and those ( even imperfect ones ) will not emerge as long as ltte is there .

will the solution - necessarily a compromise arrived at by democratic representatives of all interest groups in sri lankan polity satisfy all tamil aspirations . probably no (democracy is based on compromises). but will that dissatisfaction excuse some criminals from resorting to violence using that as an excuse or a propaganda device? definitely no

if you do not agree, say so clearly with rational arguments based on facts, instead of indulging in unfounded fantasies about what i think.



hacked stories of "some of our best friends are tamil" and that "tamils and sinhalese live happily and peacefully" together or that "lakshman kadirgamar was a tamil."
why say this here? because i never indulged in such fancies . another fantasy of yours about the way i think ? i am well aware of racism and am quick to point out racist prejudices that underlie some of the common sayings.

i do think that racism will be a major factor in only in a minority people of all communities and we should not pander them. that is one reason i oppose and racist attempt to equalize tamils with ltte ( which is supported by only few racist tamils) by both peaceniks( like everyone mentioned above) and sinhala racists. unfortunately your argument that war causes ltte's to gain strength is derivative of that racist equalization and is not based on reality

i agree with you about the insecurity and fear felt by tamils in south ( do you think i disagree? because if you don't ,why use that as an argument against me. as i said you have not read me and is arguing against a ghost of your own imagining , wake up!.. and read me first before arguing with me )

however i repeat, very real insecurity and fear felt by tamils in south, does not justify existence of ltte. if anyone supports ltte atrocities bc they are insecure( few probably do ) , they are criminals and should not be tolerated. that is why as i have said repeatedly that it is racist to believe tamils support ltte and its actions. that is where your argument fails.


The day that we stop thinking that Sri Lankan = Sinhalese is the first day of the last days of the LTTE.
again do you think i disagree about Sri Lankan = Sinhalese is racism ? because if you don't,why use that as an argument against me. as i said you have not read me and is arguing against a ghost of your own imagining

i always speak of sri lankans (btw what makes you think i am a sinhalese ? because as a policy i who anyway belong to a minority community refer to myself as a sri lankan. always . )

what i disagree with you - your implication that sinhalese racism ( confined to a minority ) is the cause of ltte. ltte will not end just because people in south start thinking as sri lankans. it will not end even if and when tamils in north thinking themselves as sri lankans . ltte is an armed criminal gang that has to be defeated with violence if needs be like most criminals

unless you explain with detail how such a thing happen, i will stick to my realistic and evidence based world view about ltte and how it should be dealt with.

Neither the leeches in the peace industry nor the looters in the war industry (not a big difference) will bring peace and prosperity to sri lanka.
right.
but the question is what you propose .
that is why i asked from you before, to articulate your alternative to, attempt to defeat ltte with violence if need be, (which is imo only realistic and or moral option available to any one who respect human rights, justice, democracy and freedom,) if you are not an intellectually dishonest hypocrite.

all you have said in reply is that ltte will fold up when racism ends and if we stop fighting ltte.

forgive me but that is stupid.

i am sorry i live in real world (where thugs like castros, stalin, kims of north korea and hitler and others flourished for decades) and unless you give details as to how such a fantasy as yours work in real world ( and how history of ltte indicate anything else but that it was, is, will be, a criminal gang that need to be defeated ) i will stick to my evidence based veiw of ltte and moral and realistic imperative to got rid of ltte as far as possible using violence if needs be, because other wise we would be condemning millions to ltte atrocities.

may you too should wake up from your fantasies and see the world as it is ( may be actually understanding history which you claim to know)

( and in the process perhaps read what i have actually written before arguing with me )

keep nohair:
thanks for you empty witticism. no body laughed . try a better joke next time. bc we do need fools to entertain us - and you have the required irataionality and stupidity

mixedblessings89:
what can i say?
we are used to the blasts. and have grown cold and almost indifferent

of course peopel who actually felt its murder will not be so indifferent

hopefully i am not indifferent as i claim to be
-

i read some of your posts your posts .

-
fdl - forward defense line . basically front line in battles with terrorists controlling territory .

sittingnut said...

whoever
you of course know that you are being racist when you utter such nonsenses,. and racism is disgusting

may be gini appu is racist too ( he is certainly living in a fantasy ) when he implies that ltte is caused by tamils problems etc. but that does not excuse your racism

most tamils and most sinhalese are not racists ( as i told gini appu as well)
most of them they do not celebrate death of innocents, or even people doing their duty as solders

certainly i too wish that more people had courage to denounce ltte as mr anadasangaree has done and call of its defeat with violence if needs be . but then cowardice is no crime and silence is not a form of approval, it is just cowardice

in addition racists like you cannot denounce other racists.

i call for defeat of ltte because that is the only option open for people who want to see respect for human rights, justice, democracy and freedom and do not live in fantasy worked removed from reality like gini appu

thekillromeoproject said...

Firstly....sorry for the long silence, I was not at work over the weekend.

secondly, I won't even deign to respond to the various insults that have been very gleefully put up..... they just go to say a lot about the character of the people who made them.

Thirdly, in answer to your comment "hopefully next time you will not resort to such stupid arguments."

here's what I propose.

http://thekillromeoproject.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/show-the-world-we-mean-business/

thekillromeoproject said...

http://thekillromeoproject.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/show-the-world-we-mean-business/

not sure if the addy copied correctly the first time :)

sittingnut said...

thekillromeoproject:
thanks for the comment and link
here is the link made clickable

unfortunately your proposed alternative is only possible in fantasy .
so you really think "LTTE leadership" will become peaceful and lay down their arms just because they have "advisory roles in the entire project" turning defese budget for development activities in north and east as you propose ? where have you lived all these years?

your mistake is to believe the ltte propaganda at face value. ltte is not fighting to redress tamil problems as you believe and they propagate .

first, if what you say is true why have they been the cause of greatest suffering ( mush more than any sl government ) for tamils? more killings more human rights violations, more denial of justice etc. etc were the result of ltte's existence and own direct responsibility . why do they kill alternative tamil leaders? why are they opposed to democracy? no what they want is autocratic power like any other fascist dictators.
i would agree to any peaceful role( and even amnesty ) for them if they lay down their arms and submit to justice, but i don't think that is likely . what makes you think so? . fantasy?

second. your belief that very real discriminations, grievances ( and as others say '83, human right violation by gosl etc ) of tamils causes ltte terrorism and that eliminating them will end ltte, is based on a complete unrealistic assessment of causality . all that do not necessarily cause terrorism, any more than poverty cause theft. to say that is unjust and against all those people who haver fought for their rights through peaceful democratic means ( such as indian tamils in sl) only means that should be tolerated. thrives and terrorist should face justice whatever their stated motives.

thirdly you say
"Where then are they going to find reasons to continue this war? If the Tamil people are given not just the same treatment, but preferential treatment, won’t that automatically make the LTTE a redundant entity?"
more fantasy ( please explain how this redundancy you refer happens )
they will always find reasons for existence as stalins, castros, kims etc ( and any number of ordinary criminal gangs) have done, they will not become redundant just because you think their reasons for existence are not there , they will simply say the reasons are still there. in fact real reason for their existence is their want of autocratic power, and their means of existence is armed oppression and they will keep people in subjection through those means as those others mentioned have done even while saying they are doing so for those oppressed people
that is reality. wake up !

Jack Point said...

The war is not 25 years old. The LTTE is 32 years old, Jaffna Mayor was killed in 1976 or so, one of tehir early acts.

I was in Jaffna in 1974, on a family visit to my father who serving there in the army. He had been posted there with other troops to tackle the insurgency, so that puts the war at least at 36 years. Some people trace the war back to 1972 I believe.

SL has been independent for 60 years, at war for at least 36. Not a good record is it?

thekillromeoproject said...

@ Sittingnut,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time out to read my post, and posting a working link!

I firmly believe that most things can be sorted out through discussion, so let me see if I can clear some points out.

“first, if what you say is true why have they been the cause of greatest suffering ( mush more than any sl government ) for tamils?” — If you read my post, no where have I claimed that the LTTE is NOT a terrorist organisation, nor have I made ANY excuses for their actions.

“second. your belief that very real discriminations, grievances ( and as others say ‘83, human right violation by gosl etc ) of tamils causes ltte terrorism and that eliminating them will end ltte, is based on a complete unrealistic assessment of causality . all that do not necessarily cause terrorism, any more than poverty cause theft.” —- Once again, no where in my post, have I said what the LTTE claim to be the reasons behind their violence are TRUE or FACTUAL. What I have said is that as a STEP FORWARD, we should maybe just accept what they say as a given.

“they will not become redundant just because you think their reasons for existence are not there , they will simply say the reasons are still there. in fact real reason for their existence is their want of autocratic power,” —- This is in fact quite true. However, by taking away the ’so-called’ grievances that they claim to be fighting for, the GOSL has the perfect opportunity to expose the LTTE for what they truly are. This in turn gets the entire world community on our side and effectively sabotages their propaganda engine.

“their means of existence is armed oppression and they will keep people in subjection through those means as those others mentioned have done even while saying they are doing so for those oppressed people” —- Yes, but, if the GOSL can prove to the world community that there are no more oppressed people in this country, then it exposes the LTTE for what they are. In effect, take away the people they are ’supposed’ to be fighting for, and then all they’ll be fighting for is ‘autocratic power’.

All I maintain in my post is that the Executive President of this country has all the power he needs to make an effective change. Yes, I do agree that it will leave us open to attack (even said this in my post). But doing this will definitely prove to the world community that Sri Lanka is for peace not war.

Would certainly appreciate your feedback.

Yawn said...

romeo...a word of adice: just stick to writing poetry/prose. And to be honest, even that's not your forte.

human said...

So this is another one of those peace guys (traitors) vs war guys(patriots) debates right? I love those.

First let me summarize your argument.

A) LTTE is a bunch of killers who will never ever change.

B) They would never want to stop fighting unless they get their Eelam.

C) We don't want to give them their Eelam.

D) So the only option we have is destroying their war machine

E) The only way to destroy their war machine is to fight them head on until they are all dead.

So if we accept the above argument then our president is doing the right thing.

I have heard this argument again and again. But the biggest problem is in point E. If you really want to destroy the LTTE then war is not a very smart choice. The best way to finish them is here

White Van said...

Right, I've had enough of all this rot. I'm coming for all of you in my white van. All except Victor, who knows what he's talking about (Rock on, man!), and Sittingnut, whose heart is in the right place. Killromeoproject; don't forget we had you in our grip a few days ago. It's not that hard to get you again.

SL1st said...

Dear White Van/Tiger in Sheep's Clothing,
Are you sure you are not coming with a Suicide Bomb or a Claymore to kill our dear S/Nut?
Suicide Bombers and Claymores are Real.- White Vans aren't.

Dear human, &
Dear thekillromeoproject,
You two are so unoriginal and repeated Gini Appu. So Read S/Nut's answer to Gini Appu till S/Nut returns.

thekillromeoproject said...

@ sl1st

I wonder if you have taken the time to follow thelink provided by Sittingnut.

Also even if I do disagree with Sittingnut's views, I would be interested in his viewpoint.

human said...

@Sittingnut

thekillromeoproject : "Where then are they going to find reasons to continue this war? If the Tamil people are given not just the same treatment, but preferential treatment, won’t that automatically make the LTTE a redundant entity?"

Sittingnut: more fantasy ( please explain how this redundancy you refer happens )

It is not fantasy Sittingnut!

Here is what the redundancy can do

I would like to hear what the pro war guys(SL1st ,Sittingnut and whitevan) think about this. Sorry about the repeat if you have already followed the link.

SL1st said...

Dear human, &
Dear thekillromeoproject,

I have read both your links. I think S/Nut wastes his time and talent by answering and debunking fantasies like yours. Anyone with modicum of common sense will recognize their otherworldliness even without his lengthy replies. However, he will probably reply once he returns.

S/Nut has gone on a business trip and will probably return during weekend.

Human, one thing more, White Van is a fake. You should have realized that before lumping us together.

human said...

@SL1st
Thanks for reading my link. And sorry about lumping you together with the (fake)white van.

So you think it is just a fantasy but the post is full of specific facts that I have seen for myself by living in the war zones. If you could comment on why you feel it is a fantasy then I would be happy to answer.

But if you want a proper fantasy, Check this out!

ViceUnVersa said...

If you look to history and recent examples internationally, war is not the answer. Maybe weakening them enough to bring them to the negotiating table yes. But that too is a hard ask.

Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbullah. What's happening in Afghanistan and Iraq after the most powerful democracy in the world liberated these countries. All lessons to learn from.

Honesty and transparency is important in SLGOV but missing horribly. Both the blues and greens were part of turning the other cheek when top LTTE cadre's were partying and fucking russina pro's at the Hilton Residencies. Meetings in the Singapore Mandarin Hotel. Booking whole hotels in Sri Lanka for the LTTE to party in. All this must stop.

Or all of us who rant and rave are the very fools.

tiger said...

ViceUnVersa

How did you find out about LTTE 'fucking Russian pros?' Are you one of them pros?

LTTE don't fuck pros. And they don't give an easy time to anyone who tries to fuck the Tamil People!

tiger said...

I think the peaceniks are wasting their time. Sinhala goverments doesn't want peace. They want to suppress the Tamils and don't want to give any rights. Only a seperate state for Tamils will bring peace.

thekillromeoproject said...

@ sl1st,

You dismiss what I have said as total fantasy, but you don't provide any valid points to support your opinion.

Also, as no executive president of this country has tried my solution, you can't say it has no chance of working. (I'm sure there were pleanty of people like you around when the Wright brothers were building the KIttyhawk)

Viceunversa has raised a very valid point, even the biggest superpower in the world has yet to get rid of even a single terrorist group. What thinks we're going to be any more successful.

@ Tiger,
Your comments are not even worth replying.

ViceUnVersa said...

Dear Tiger

One thing I am assured of, Tiger you are DEFINITELY NOT :).

Your knee-jerk reaction makes me smile, and if you are a Tamil, you bring them to shame.

Over time I have enjoyed making love to woman of many ethnicities, some of them Tamil :). They are really hot and good lovers.

And I my friend never relied on the GOV of SL to supply me with Ruskie Pro's. As I do respect the privacy of my LTTE friends and those who supplied them with Ruskie Pro's, I choose not to reveal names on cyberspace.

Peace be on to you and yours my brother. PEACE OF MIND.

tiger said...

ViceUnVersa,
That's very funny! I asked you how you got to know about LTTE men having fun with pros. And in reply you are saying "I do respect the privacy of my LTTE friends..."

But now it looks like the LTTE guys have enjoyed the services or a pro after all. But the pro in question seems to be a Sri Lankan Male - not a Russian Female!

You seem to be trying hard to hide your sexual orientation by talking about making love to women. But I think you should come out of the closet now. After all it is nothing to be ashamed of.

Hope the LTTE guys enjoyed your services!And it is nice of you to protect the privacy of your clients!

ViceUnVersa said...

@ tiger : Wow, you can articulate! Good on you. My bad.

morq said...

hey stinging nuts. still warmongering on i see. dude get a life seriously :D or a job. you parents must be getting pretty tired of having you slouch about the house.

sittingnut said...

in reply to morq:
heard about pots talking about kettles? or beams in eyes, or glass houses ? :-)
-
for information of others:
(morq of course never learned dates).
i am busy with business that is why i was not able reply to comments.:-(
will do so sometime soon hopefully.

Anonymous said...

This is amazing bullshit. People of peaceful intentions have every right to state their opinion and just because people disagree with this shameful scumbag Sinhala government they are automatically LTTE lovers. Instead of imbred insults why don't you try a more productive approach like suggesting productive ideas. This will never be a military win and the rest of the sane world will let this Nazi government know just what it thinks of yet another nation bent on genocide. No worries, you'll just be made a colony again by some other country since you've pissed all of your economics friends off.

sittingnut said...

anon at 8.31 am

read before criticizing, ignorant fool

peace should not come at the expense of human rights , justice, freedom and democracy . that would be no peace at all.

in addition appeasement has never worked

named people have advocated peace at any price without regard to those. a fact clearly stated in main post and in comments and in links clearly pointed out. in your hurry to display your ignorant stupidity you forgot to rad those

if you are advocating peace by way of depriving others their rights and ignoring ltte nature and atrocities you are a criminal. and yes only ltte lovers or fools do that, given the well documented facts . are you one? reply and defend your comment if you dare

btw state and point to evidence of genocide by government . only genocide attempter in sl is ltte when they systematically ethnically cleansed and attempted cleanse north and east respectively. all thos attcks ae wll docmented . deny if you dare.

if you do not have any facts to back your argument and merely parroting terrorist propaganda say that too.

people are free to to be ltte lovers and terrorist propagandists within the law if they want to. a fact i have explicitly defended. but others have a right to point that disgusting love affair. and i for one will do that

as for winning who are you to judge that? ppl with more experience and knowledge have opposite opinion . esp when winning is defined as i do.(read)
-

we will stand up for out rights and freedoms in spite of you. and just try making us a colony again.(or showing your idiocy again)
fool :-)

human said...

@sittingnut

You seem to see only two options

A) Keep fighting the LTTE no matter how many men women and children have to die and how many others have to starve for years to come.

B) Surrender to the LTTE and give them everything they are asking for. 'Pacify' them and just hope and pray that the LTTE will turn into a bunch nice guys who would put Ghandhi to shame.

Ever wondered if there were any other options at all? The 'peace guys' are talking about other options. There is a good chance you would figure it out for yourself if you actually bothered to READ their comments (and links where provided - including mine) before replying. Just give it a try and let me know if you need any help! :)

sittingnut said...

human :
you are the one arguing without reading. your inability quote me while making arguments against things i supposedly said is just an indication of that.
-
"You seem to see only two options"
really? as i say quote me if you can ( something similar or even implied by me will do) ( why can't you ?) :-)

in fact i see only one realistic and morally acceptable option for anyone who is rational, lives in reality, and respects human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy ; defeat of ltte using legitimate violence if needs be (this is no different from use of violence against other criminals except on the scale )
-
reason why "women and children have to die" is because ltte exists and as long as it exists in its present form, innocents will die. this is a fact.
explicitly deny it if you dare.(fact that you run from this, without admitting or denying it, says lot about your world view based on fantasy )
-
"'peace guys' are talking about other options"

talk is cheap, and when used by terrorists for propaganda dangerous to innocents.

as i have asked repeatedly here, they and you have not spelled out ( here or in links provided ) how those alleged options are to be archived realistically, and how they are morally compatible with human rights , justice , democracy , and freedom. instead they are wishy washy irrational dreams that disregard human rights etc.
i ask again, if you can, do spell out those options in detail. :-)


we are not talking about something abstract. ltte is real and brutal. we have more than enough blood and cruelties to prove that. disregarding all that and to talk about giving ltte terrorists in their present form more power in any form is either idiotic or criminal. since named peaceniks are not idiots, for most part, they are criminals.

so instead of posting silly comments, spell out in detail why i am wrong and answer the questions i have raised above,. why can't you? :-). posting links to more of same kind of wishy washy fantasy ( which as i have pointed out before , i have already read ) will not do, if you want to engage in a rational discussion.
-
(btw while replying to my points quote me instead of arguing with things i have not written )

human said...

@sittingnut

"..you are the one arguing without reading. your inability quote me while making arguments against things i supposedly said is just an indication of that. .."

Hmm.. That's interesting logic! If someone doesn't quote you it 'indicates' their 'inability' to quote you which in turn 'indicates' that they are arguing without reading eh? :)

Never mind! I am going to quote you a lot this time then :)

me: "You seem to see only two options"

You : "really? as i say quote me if you can ( something similar or even implied by me will do) ( why can't you ?) :-)"

me: OK Here goes! see the quotes below :)

You: "at most we have the choice between suffering (and letting innocents suffer) while doing nothing and trying our best to get rid of the cause for that suffering ( using violence ourselves in the process if need be)"

me: See? You are talking about surrendering as the first option above.

You: " do you want a "peace" bought at the expense of human right, justice, freedom, and democracy? how is that better than war? and do you think such a peace is sustainable? "

me: Again you seem to think peace means giving up "human right, justice, freedom, and democracy" I just call it 'surrendering' to keep it short

You:"appeasement? while forgetting about the suffering of people under ltte? while forgetting those who are threatened by ltte and letting them be killed as happened during cfa?
in other words forgetting about human rights, justice, democracy, and freedom of fellow sri lankans so that you have "peace" on colombo?
is that what you prefer?"

me:again you contrast war and appeasement - suggesting that is what the 'peaceniks' want

you: the choice is not between peace and war but giving into ltte atrocities ( thus approving them as peaceniks do ) or trying our best to get rid of the ltte as far as possible

me:do you need more quotes? Your attempt to justify the war is simple. Just pretend there is only one alternative - Giving up and letting the LTTE do whatever they want. By presenting these two as the only two options you make this easy for yourself. You just have to show how bad it would be to surrender. "peace" bought at the expense of human right, justice, freedom, and democracy" is awful isn't it?
Who would agree "forgetting those who are threatened by ltte and letting them be killed" is a good thing?

But the point is 'peacenik's like me are not suggesting that you forget about "justice, freedom, and democracy" and just let the LTTE call the shots.

You keep repeating how bad the LTTE is and how important it is to defeat them. But nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

To quote Gini appu "Yes, I agree we have to defeat the LTTE."

Where we disagree, is in the means to that end."

We are talking about what is the best way to destroy the LTTE's ability to terrorize the people.

Suppose one day you touch your DVD player and receive an electric shock. How would you react? Would you take an iron rod and try to beat the shit out of that terrible thing? Would you argue that the only other option is just ignoring it and suffering every time you want to watch a DVD? Or may be trying to appease it?(Maybe by trying to give it a hug?)

Wouldn't it be easier to just disconnect the power source? Just unplug the thing and it is dead. You can then get it repaired or throw it away. It can't strike back at you anymore because it is powerless.

The LTTE is not an an independent entity. It also needs certain power sources to survive. Unplug them and the LTTE will be dead. They are funded by their supporters abroad. They are aided by their local supporters. And still have lots of men and women who believe (Just like you!) fighting is their only option.

you: "in fact i see only one realistic and morally acceptable option for anyone who is rational, lives in reality, and respects human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy ; defeat of ltte using legitimate violence if needs be (this is no different from use of violence against other criminals except on the scale )"

You do love these words "human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy" don't you?. I like them too. Kind of makes you feel good when you use them right? :) The trouble is the LTTE is using exactly the same argument. Just replace the word ltte with the word 'The Goverment of Sri Lanka' and this would sound like a quote from the LTTE leaders 'Hero's day' speach! And it works well for them too.human rights (GOSL is one of the world's worst violators of human rights in case you haven't noticed. )justice (Ha! Ha! Just ask Mervyn if you need more details about this) freedom (Ask any journalist) and democracy( it is a nice thing - but sadly it doesn't work when the majority can be easily fooled!)

And "legitimate violence" - - You mean bombing civilions(Oh it was just an accident). Random killings of people who have nothing to do with the LTTE (If in doubt KILL) Larg scale abductions killings and torture(we really don't know who these white van guys are!) and raping school girls in their own homes in front of their parents in the 'liberated' east! Oh the joys of legitimate violence! Does the LTTE need anything more than this to get supporters here and abroad?

I think there is a better way to deal with the LTTE. Just remove their power sources. Peace creates the right environment to do that. Their power sources get unplugged one by one slowly until they can no longer survive as a terrorist group. They are put in a 'change or die' situation.

you:as i have asked repeatedly here, they and you have not spelled out ( here or in links provided ) how those alleged options are to be archived realistically

me:http://themoonandthemouse.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-beat-living-crap-out-of-tigers.html

you: "...and how they are morally compatible with human rights , justice , democracy , and freedom. instead they are wishy washy irrational dreams that disregard human rights etc."

me: After reading the above link, let me know which parts you don't agree with.

you:so instead of posting silly comments, spell out in detail why i am wrong and answer the questions i have raised above,. why can't you? :-)

me: see above link

you: posting links to more of same kind of wishy washy fantasy ( which as i have pointed out before , i have already read ) will not do, if you want to engage in a rational discussion.

me: Can you be a bit more specific next time please? Let me know why you think the stuff on the above link is a "wishy washy fantasy"

sittingnut said...

human :
your irrationality and confused illogical arguments and positions you get in to due to that is beyond belief

-
That's interesting logic! If someone doesn't quote you it 'indicates' their 'inability' to quote you which in turn 'indicates' that they are arguing without reading eh? :)

above, where you mix together two different arguments is a prime example of your total inability engage in rational argument

first,
what you did in previous comment was to attribute to me things i never wrote. so asking you to quote me saying those things is legitimate point. ( in the rational world if not in your irrational world ).

second,
if you have actually read and still attributed to me things i never wrote you are being dishonest ( sort of thing that liars and ppl who run out of valid argument do) by thinkng that you have not read i was being kind to you by thinking you a fool rather than a knave. if you want to be dishonest liar instead of fool it is your choice

so which were you? a liar or a knave :-)
answer that question first, clearly in your reply. liar or fool? :-)


-
See? You are talking about surrendering as the first option above.
really ? and what "surrender"?
is that all you have to back your alleged claim of two options allowed by me ?
you are indeed incapable of rational argument, to make such a silly mistake

from the first including main post here ( and in other posts before that, some linked in main post ) i have made it clear that there is one realistic or moral choice.
here is the quote from main post.
"there is only one course open to sri lankans who want human rights, justice, democracy, and freedom, to prevail (and to live) ; try to defeat ltte terrorists ... using legitimate violence if need be ."
there is no ambiguity there
my argument throughout has been that any other option is unrealistic and morally reprehensible. and ppl who advocate such should detail and defend them if they not to be thought of as criminals or fools
what you quote, is me pointing out that other options, all of which if detailed base themselves on allowing ltte a free hand, more or less, are morally unacceptable .

if you did not get my point about there being only one option for any decent person, in spite of repeated and clear statements like above, problem is with you
:-)

-
Again you seem to think peace means giving up "human right, justice, freedom, and democracy" I just call it 'surrendering' to keep it short
??
what is your point?
i do point out ( not just "think ") the fact that peace with ltte in present form inevitably involve giving up human right, justice, freedom, and democracy. that is a statement of fact without any ambiguity.
you have not either denied or accepted this fact, but (as i have pointed out) avoid or run way from it by using unfocused language.

that is why you do here too . what you call "surrender" is not at all clear and given the word can take different meanings in normal use pretty useless here . if you want to engage in rational argument you have to be unambiguous and clear
so i ask again "is existence of ltte in present form compatible with human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy?
try to answer clearly if you want to engage in a rational discussion . do not use ambiguous word "surrender" but answer the question asked. otherwise i will ask that from you again and again . and make fun of your cowardly avoidance of the question and the intellectually dishonest reasons behind that :-)

-
again you contrast war and appeasement - suggesting that is what the 'peaceniks' want
??
i do not contrast war and appeasement . given the fact that i have been careful to be clear and definite with the words i use, it is surprising that any rational person can make the mistake you are making.
you are again arguing with things i have not said and ignoring things i have written( even basic definition of word "peaceniks" as i use it, in main post. read it there)

i point out that giving up human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy to ltte's benefit to get "peace" is appeasement . that is a definition of appeasement .
and yes ppl i define as peaceniks ( read the definition clearly stated in main post. repeat, read ) are ppl who advocate such appeasement. i have pointed out in many posts what those named have done in that regard.

-
Your attempt to justify the war is simple. Just pretend there is only one alternative - Giving up and letting the LTTE do whatever they want. By presenting these two as the only two options you make this easy for yourself. You just have to show how bad it would be to surrender. "peace" bought at the expense of human right, justice, freedom, and democracy" is awful isn't it?

i do say,
that as long as ltte exist war will exist. that is a fact .
and i do say that there is only one option for any one who respects human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy and is rational and realistic - defeat of ltte with violence if needs be.

as i ask from you again and again( with you running away from answering) prove me wrong. why don't you? :-)

ltte is not some abtract notion. it is real, and its nature and actions are well known and documented. pointing those out as i do does not make it "easy" or hard for me. it is just a statement of reality . anyone who consider what to do with ltte have to recognize and address ltte and its nature as revealed in well documented facts

if you do not agree, by all means prove with details that ltte is compatible with real peace that respects human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy.
as long as you cannot, all your other arguments are silly.

all you have done is run away from that open challenge.
do not run, just prove that ltte is compatible with real peace that respects human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy if you can. why can't you? :-)


-
Who would agree "forgetting those who are threatened by ltte and letting them be killed" is a good thing?
exactly . that is why imo there is the only one moral and realistic option. this is not an abstract argument as you seem to think, it is a statement of fact

if you think any peace that involves ltte in control arms and people, is different to" forgetting those who are threatened by ltte and letting them be killed". by all means detail that. you have so far not done that in spite of repeated requests.

But the point is 'peacenik's like me are not suggesting that you forget about "justice, freedom, and democracy" and just let the LTTE call the shots.
but what are are you advocating ? why can't you detail them as i have asked you repeatedly .
why not give details about ltte's control of arms, people and territory, in such a peace as you advocate . why run from this ? :-)
your and their reluctance to go in to details stems from the fact that those options and solutions advocated by peaceniks inevitably involve ltte continuing to hold arms, people and territory in its control . that is by definition incompatible norms of with human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy. if not give the details as i have asked repeatedly instead of running away and avoiding.

:-)

--
You keep repeating how bad the LTTE is and how important it is to defeat them. But nobody is disagreeing with you on that.
To quote Gini appu "Yes, I agree we have to defeat the LTTE."
Where we disagree, is in the means to that end."
We are talking about what is the best way to destroy the LTTE's ability to terrorize the people.


you forget to quote the questions i asked from him in reply ( let alone reply to them )

so i will ask the question i asked from him (in compressed form )-
do you believe that ltte can be defeated and deprived of its control of arms , people and territory, without some use of violence, given ltte's nature and history, both well documented?
if you agree with me about the nature of ltte you will have to agree that violence have to be used .
if not, you have to point out in detail exact means of defeating ltte without use of violence. ( and if that involves leaving "bad" ltte in control arms , people and territory, whether that is morally acceptable to you ?


as i said to gini appu, simply wishing ltte will be defeated will not be enough. you have to detail how it can be done without violence . he did not reply with details and like you avoided answering. will you ? :-)
there is no censorship here. reply to questions! what is preventing you or anyone else from giving the details?
-

Suppose one day you touch your DVD player and receive an electric shock. How would you react? Would you take an iron rod and try to beat the shit out of that terrible thing? Would you argue that the only other option is just ignoring it and suffering every time you want to watch a DVD? Or may be trying to appease it?(Maybe by trying to give it a hug?)
:-)
problem with your analogy and your whole way of thinking is that ltte is not some harmless malfunctioning dvd player . it is an armed criminal gang with well documented history of killing innocents and all sorts of other atrocities . instead of just giving shocks when we touch it, ltte runs after innocents and kills them. its aim is to establish an oppressive authoritarian regime. .and it has long substantiated history of taking advantage of people who give it hugs ( and then killing them too ) :-)

to deny those facts is what is wrong with your argument . pity that you do not understand this obvious reality

given what ltte actually does ( obvious to anyone who lives in reality unlike you ) it should be brought to justice, and if it refuses violence has to be used ( as we do with other criminals.)

-
Wouldn't it be easier to just disconnect the power source? Just unplug the thing and it is dead.....
as i have repeatedly asked you please detail how you can "disconnect" power from ltte given it nature and history . you run from that.
as long as it has control of arms, people. and territory it will be in a position extort power like hitler, stalin, castro and others, long after their original empty and false justifications for existence have run out of any credulity ( btw i have made this point above against a similar argument like yours and you it seems did not read it ) . only way to stop them from lasting a long time is to use violence.that is reality

ltte strengthened during cfa by fattening on "taxes", recruitment, and arms purchases . that is fact . while you have nothing to support your argument about "unplugging".

-

You do love these words "human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy" don't you?. I like them too. Kind of makes you feel good when you use them right? :)

yes i love human rights, justice, freedom, and democracy. not just because i feel good when you use them, because i want to enjoy them. and rest of sri lankans too.


The trouble is the LTTE is using exactly the same argument.Just replace the word ltte with the word 'The Goverment of Sri Lanka' and this would sound like a quote from the LTTE leaders 'Hero's day' speach...

so?
if you or ltte want to construct an argument by morally equating ltte with government (or me) do so .
people who can take this kind of argument seriously, expose their moral bankruptcy by displaying their inability distinguish between a democratically elected government(however imperfect) plus people who are not in the business of deliberately attacking innocents, with a group whose only legitimacy is power obtained through guns and killing innocents

i am sure any moral person will know what to do with such arguments . pity you do not :-)

-
GOSL is one of the world's worst violators of human rights in case you haven't noticed.
really ? you think it is morally comparable to ltte do you ? fool you or others who use such arguments seriously.
btw when using such trash, do give substantiated evidence, instead of slander obtained by way of terrorist propaganda which only fools believe .

may be you think gosl, because it is not perfect, should not arrest or judge other criminals too ?
that is what your moral equivalence of gosl and ltte argument, amount to.

use such silly arguments on fools.

justice (Ha! Ha!
so you do not want justice? you think gosl is a personalization of injustice just like ltte?
then why oppose anything ? why are you here even?
you are confused and lost and have forgotten the fundamentals of why you are arguing.

Just ask Mervyn if you need more details about this
why?
mervyn silva (who btw is a friend of several peaceniks i named above and invited by them to speak at peacenik rallies as i have pointed out in the past ) should face justice ( as i have said in posts devoted to him) . fact that he gets away, do not in way excuse ltte, or the requirement that ltte should face justice. your argument is worthless and illogical.
apart from that absurd logic, the fact that you or any other fool should consider it possible to use him to excuse ltte's impunity says a lot about their moral outlook..

democracy ... doesn't work when the majority can be easily fooled!
:-) well given the display of your "intelligence" and irrationality here, i would be more than happy to rely on the intelligence of people you consider fools .:-)


--
legitimate violence" - - You mean bombing civilions(Oh it was just an accident). Random killings of people who have nothing to do with the LTTE (If in doubt KILL) Larg scale abductions killings and torture(we really don't know who these white van guys are!) and raping school girls in their own homes in front of their parents in the 'liberated' east! Oh the joys of legitimate violence!

cat is out of the bag ! finally you reveal your real sympathies!
now we know why you are so opposed to defeat of ltte in any realistic way in spite of your claims to contrary.
after running out of any valid argument to defend ltte terrorists pussies, you resort to silly allegations. :-)
with regard to those allegations, i will repeat the argument i use against hard core ltte terrorist supporters and propaganda parrots -

1. please give substantiated evidence for any of the atrocities you allge instead of using slander and rumor borrowed from terrorist propaganda sources
2. please indicate why you think that (even if alleged crimes are true, which you are yet to prove ) they are not due to accidents, indiscipline, and criminality of individuals? ( as opposed to deliberate conspiracy by gosl. btw what is the motivation for such a conspiracy ? )
3 why did you jump to conspiracy theory first, disregarding all other explanations?

in contrast ltte deliberately target innocents .

you disregard that differance among others and think ltte is moral equivalent of gosl !
that anyone can use such arguments says a lot about them and their sympathies . people should give disgusting persons (like you ) who use such arguments you a wide berth . they stink of moral corruption

-
Does the LTTE need anything more than this to get supporters here and abroad?

I think there is a better way to deal with the LTTE. Just remove their power sources. Peace creates the right environment to do that. Their power sources get unplugged one by one slowly until they can no longer survive as a terrorist group. They are put in a 'change or die' situation.


ltte will get support from fools who can believe such arguments as you use anyway, whether there is a war or not.

in contrast ltte will not be able to exhort from people against their will or engage in lucrative criminal activity in any worthwhile scale, when they are not able control arms, people, or territory. that is one reason why they should be deprived of those using violence if needs be, in the same way as other criminals exhorting .

recent so called ceasefire is a case in point . among other benefit to them from cfa , ltte was able fatten on the "taxes " they levied, children they recruited and arms the gathered, unmolested during that time, instead of "getting unplugged slowly" . in contrast they are in dire straits now after military defeats . that is reality you ignore.
.
remember that ( as i pointed out above which you obviously did not read ) similar criminals ranging from hitler,stalin, castro, kims in north korea, etc have long endured long after their original justifications failed and only fools believed their empty words ( as you and their voluntary supporters do with regard to ltte no matter what ) . why? because these criminals controlled/es arms, people and territory. only way to get rid of them is to use violence. otherwise they will last a long long time.

that is the reality, you ignore in your deliberate stupidity

you cannot run from reality fool.

-

me:http://themoonandthemouse.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-beat-living-crap-out-of-tigers.html
as i said " instead of posting silly comments, spell out in detail why i am wrong and answer the questions i have raised above,. why can't you? :-). posting links to more of same kind of wishy washy fantasy ( which as i have pointed out before , i have already read ) will not do, if you want to engage in a rational discussion."
what part do you not understand. fool?
answer the specific questions raised in detail, instead of repeatedly linking to unrealistic fantasies removed complete from reality

After reading the above link, let me know which parts you don't agree with.
whole of it . :-) since it does not provide answers to questions i raised (see above) which are valid to it as well . linked post is short on details asked for and tall on fantasy.

if you think it provides answers to questions i raised quote the relevant sentences

fact is you are unable to answer the specific questions raised using your post or from using your own mind, because both are in a fantasy world. .

Can you be a bit more specific next time please? Let me know why you think the stuff on the above link is a "wishy washy fantasy"
i have already repeatedly asked you to answer specific question about solutions and the ways they deal with ltte, your linked to post expound .
your link does not provide the specific details or the answer to the questions i asked for above from you. . if you think otherwise and think it provides answers quote the sentences

your repeating of the link instead of actually answering those questions using words ( if you have them you are free to quote the arguments in linked post ) indicate to all that you do not have the details asked for . if not ,write the words and answer. :-)

and do not run like a terrorist coward , fool :-)

marlon said...

I think it's very clear as to what human is saying to everyone else except you. You prefer to harp and labour over a few words seemingly using it as an excuse or it's just that your blinded by your personal bias.

His suggestions are very clear and have infact been put into practice and have been successful. How do you think the GOSL captured the east relatively easily? Because the LTTE was so weak there. This was due to the split in the LTTE. This split happened during times of peace. Not during war. I think human's argument is justified therein.

Defeating the LTTE is necessary, but this cannot be done by giving their cause new life.

Howmany thousands of Tamils are arrested all around the country and thrown into dingy cells and torchered for the simple crime of being Tamil. Do you deny that tamil people are arrested and torchered? You think that these people after being so abused would not bend towards supporting the LTTE from this point?

I have argued with you perviously regarding the human rights issue. But you conveniently bailed out. Your only argument being that there is no evidence that can be presented to a court in this land. I have given you my views in my argument in your previous post. If you choose to be naive that is you choice.

Your just blind and drunk over your stance and your bias that you conveniently abuse anyone who has an opposite view with silly names and call them criminal %^&*# etc etc...

Anyway you should be pretty happy. You have everthing you want - war, poverty, death, hatred, blood. All of it. You claim to want it for moral reasons... But what's the difference really?

sittingnut said...

marlon:

everyone is clear? really? then why is it that you or he cannot put that into words? how stupid can you be?

i ask again answer the questions i raised with regards to what he said.
if it is so clear, as you say, why cant you answer ? questions are in bold you cannot miss them :-)
since human has run away like stupid coward, may be you should answer

--
and while you are at it please explain what you mean by my personal bias ? don't take cover behind words . explain what exactly i am biased against or for ?

--
infact been put into practice and have been successful. How do you think the GOSL captured the east relatively easily? Because the LTTE was so weak there. This was due to the split in the LTTE. This split happened during times of peace. Not during war. I think human's argument is justified therein.
really ? no in fact.
let me remind you of things you have forgotten.
it was not easy, there was fighting and people did get killed. it was the military that won the war not karuna faction. those are facts .

wanni ltte has retaken control of most of their eastern areas by 2006 ( they have similarly retaken control in earlier splits which btw are not confined to times of "peace" ) and felt they are strong enough to cut off water in mavil aru deliberately provoking in the hope that if military backed down( as was usual during cfa )strengthening and extending themselves further. ( that is what ltte did throughout cfa pushing the gosl and when unp or cbk government backed down each time consolidating and extending their control .

in addition to regaining control of east, as i said above ( which you did not read ), ltte rearmed ( including with air planes ) , fortified new areas ( including sampoor etc ) , collected financial resources ( helped by unhampered foreign travel , taxes collected at checkpoints to their areas, etc . etc), extended their propaganda machine (helped among others by norwegians (with broadcasting equipment) and ngo peaceniks ), killed its tamil opponents ( including democaratic leaders like min. kadiragarmar) killed military's most effective intelligence and long rang fighting men .. .. i can go on and on ...

why do you forget all that ?

only if you you willfully forget all those facts that what "human" said become so clear and realistic . isn't that so? do answer :-)

and as i have said before, sort of unrealistic "peaceful" methods to defeat ltte hinted at ( because in spite of requests he has not provided details) by human requires that we forget the rights ( and violence used against them by ltte) of all those who fall under ltte or threatened by control during that "peace", as we forgot sri lankans in north and east during cfa.


--
Defeating the LTTE is necessary, but this cannot be done by giving their cause new life.
fighting ltte is not giving ltte new life . not fighting ltte gives itte life . that is a fact confirmed by all those things i have mentioned above . deny if if you dare .

--
Howmany thousands of Tamils are arrested all around the country and thrown into dingy cells and torchered for the simple crime of being Tamil.

no ,they not arrested for "simple crime of being Tamil" .
that is ltte propaganda. few people are arrested on suspicion of helping ltte in various ways ( and yes most of them are tamil ). that is necessary in wars where innocents are targeted by terrorist hiding among civilians.
your inability to make that distinction ( or to come up with evidence to show that crime is merely being tamil ) indicate that your bias is with ltte terrorists.
do not confuse ltte with tamils like all racist

--
Do you deny that tamil people are arrested and torchered?
i know that relatively few people are arrested on suspicion of helping ltte . to say "tamil people " as you say is a distortion only indulged in by terrorist propagandists are you one?
--

You think that these people after being so abused would not bend towards supporting the LTTE from this point?
if anyone regardless of their grievances ( real or fake) support ltte they are criminals . and should be treated as such . not treating them as such will only help ltte to strengthen.
grievances are not an excuse for killing innocents.

grievances should not be confused with how to treat ltte and its supporters. they should be treated separately. people who confuse the two, as you do, are stupid and/or immoral. and are likely to support ltte anyway because of their stupidity and lack of a moral base.

--

But you conveniently bailed out
where ? why not point to it ? i don't remember bailing out :-)
usually it is people like you who run away in my previous posts :-)
--
Your only argument being that there is no evidence that can be presented to a court in this land. I have given you my views in my argument in your previous post. If you choose to be naive that is you choice.
lol just think about what you are saying
you are saying that we should convict and slander people without credible evidence just because your favorite ltte propagandist says so . lol
by doing so you are only proving, not that i am naive, but that you are willing to violate human rights and presumption of innocence to protect terrorists and their propagandists, of which you are one here


Your just blind and drunk over your stance and your bias that you conveniently abuse anyone who has an opposite view with silly names and call them crimina
again i ask what i am blind about or biased against ? say that in words? why can't you. do not take cover behind words like the terrorist coward you are.

i do call ppl who violate human rights criminals. is that wrong ? dare answer with clarity ?

given the fact ltte is incompatible with real peace that respects human rights , democracy , justice , freedom ( do you deny this fact?as i asked several times above if so, say so. i dare you! ), i do call ppl who advocate peace with ltte stupid and/or corrupt. is that wrong ? dare answer with clarity ?


--
you have everthing you want - war, poverty, death, hatred, blood. All of it. You claim to want it for moral reasons... But what's the difference really?
how typical illogical conclusion on your part .
as i have made clear what i want is real peace with human rights, democracy, justice and democracy, to prevail. and ltte's existence is incompatible with that ( i again dare you to deny this fact about ltte) .it is the ltte that is the main cause of war, death, hatred, blood ( if not of poverty, which is an individual responsibility imo) in sl . that is why any moral or pragmatic sri lankan (clearly you are not one ) have only one choice; defeat ltte with violence of needs be

marlon said...

"everyone is clear? really? then why is it that you or he cannot put that into words?"


I think it's very clear. Refer human's post on the link he has given. That's a pretty straight forward rendition of what should be done via a solid strategy and that's what was done till we had some very forward thinking politicians who came along and provoked extremism and racism in the south to start a very profitable and conveniant venture - a war. This war can be marketed and sold to people via extremists both in the north and in the south using punch lines like "Patriotism".

This was ofcourse to the delight of the LTTE who were hurting from the split with a strong segment of theirs. They realised that the feel for peace that their cadres and the people of the NE were getting wasn't healthy for them. Their cadres too are human you know, not rabid blood thirsty animals like you make them out to be.

As you mention they used the Mavilaru, kebithigollawa situs to ignite war, as that was their life blood. Don't get me wrong it was of paramount importance that the SL forces intervened particularly in the Mavillaru case.

With the very forward thinking politicians that the LTTE themselves helped elect, the LTTE had the opportunity to gain higher moral gound sooner or later. These politicians would soon have no credibility among the international community and would be seen as oppressors of the tamil people. These were easy things for anyone to foresee and they have happened exactly as the LTTE hoped they would.

A government that had a solid stance on peace and a feasible and acceptable solution to the ethnic problem could have even waged war with the LTTE and the LTTE would have been seen as the blood thirsty terrorists that they are. Whereas this government has made no effort to win the trust of tamil people. No one but extrimists and the people who are blinded by these extremists have any respect for this government.

The first step is to think of the people, even if they are LTTE cadres or soldiers. Understand their pain, understand their fears and their dreams. A government that cannot do this will prefer the easy option of war.

I don't think it's necessary to explain to you the background of a vast majority of the LTTE cadres. Though I doubt you understand or care about the circumstances under which they are forced join a worthless cause.

If war needs to be fought it should be fought with clear perspective and with the people in mind. Lose site of the people and the purpose of the war is lost. If the war becomes a sorry excuse to oppress poor people and people of a certain ethnicity, then what ever victory won is meaningless.

So if your intelligence still challenges you and you cannot understand what is being said then please let me know.



"and while you are at it please explain what you mean by my personal bias?"


With regard to your personal bias - it's plain for everyone to see. You lick the feet of this govt and sing their songs. Your simple explanation to their attrocities are that they are "imperfect". You conveniently hide behind the GOSL's ability to cover up evidence of their atrocities. You're either licking scraps they throw you from their table or you are not very smart (which is improbable as you seem a pretty educated bloke).


"let me remind you of things you have forgotten.
it was not easy, there was fighting and people did get killed. it was the military that won the war not karuna faction. those are facts."



The CFA had it's faults and could have been implemented even more effectively. But it was a small step in the right direction. Our very forward thinking politicians provided the ideal platform for the peace deal to be broken. Attempting to defeat a government who had credibility as a genuine seeker of peace would have been much harder for the LTTE even with more fire power. Moral higher ground is a far greater asset than any weapon. So the forward thinking politicians were the way to go.



"fighting ltte is not giving ltte new life . not fighting ltte gives itte life . that is a fact confirmed by all those things i have mentioned above . deny if if you dare."


Fighting the LTTE in the manner that they are being fought now is winning them people, money and sympathy. Very valuable resources that they could have been starved for if they weren't fought while abusing innocent tamil people as well along the way.


"your inability to make that distinction ( or to come up with evidence to show that crime is merely being tamil ) indicate that your bias is with ltte terrorists.
do not confuse ltte with tamils like all racist"



You say that tamils are not arrested for being tamil. You clearly haven't visited the tid or boosa. Take a look at the hoards of tamil people there. What's their crime? If all of them were LTTE their wouldn't be an LTTE by now. It is you who are racist and have no problem with tamil people being arrested under the convenient charge that they are part of the LTTE. It is you who equate tamils to the LTTE. If you are a young tamil from jaffna, vavuniya etc and have ID card to this effect you are abused at check points, stand a good chance of being arrested and if your really unlucky can get yourself torchered and live in hell.


"if anyone regardless of their grievances ( real or fake) support ltte they are criminals . and should be treated as such."


You insensitivity towards peoples feelings and the fact that you dont care two hoots about people who are oppressed by this conflict is apparent here. Why don't you try being thrown in jail getting torchered till your mind is numb and see the effect. Your thought process is then changed forever.


"where ? why not point to it ? i don't remember bailing out :-)
usually it is people like you who run away in my previous posts :-)"


Refer your post on the Brad Adams human rights report some time ago. It's your blog if you can't find it how do you expect anyone else to find it.



If this conflict is to end the first thing is for the leaders of this country to look in to the lives of the people and understand that if they (the people including LTTE cadres and soldiers) can live in peace and prosperity then that is all they want. I very much doubt the capability of our foward thinking leaders to do this. A victory in the war may give us symbolic control of territory but the ethnic conflict and the violence will still continue.

sittingnut said...

marlon:
what a pathetic person you are :-)
again you have run away from the questions raised . why do you do it ?

-
when asked to clarify what exactly "human" states and how he addresses the question i raised about the morality and practicality of what he proposes, you again post the same old link . as i have said above several times those links (one of which i purposely made clickable ) do not address them. . if they do why don't you quote them in answer to my questions if you are unable write the words yourself .

this is what i said to "human" when he did the same avoidance trick you are now doing now- "your link does not provide the specific details or the answer to the questions i asked for above from you. . if you think otherwise and think it provides answers quote the sentences"
he certainly did not quote. if it so clear to you, do quote or at least write something on your own words . :-)


using words like "solid strategy " has no meaning if its advocates cannot even withstand and answer simple questions like mine.
-
whatever the politicians secondary motives are ( they may be corrupt etc etc as i said above . ) fact remains that there is no option other than to fight ltte because that is the only option available both realistically and morally given the ltte terrorist's complete incompatibility with standards of justice , freedom, human rights, and democracy, and the proven record of failure of "peace" achieved through appeasement. whoever the politician, be it a saintly statsman or a corrupt politician they both, unless they complete idiots, will have to come to grips with this fact and try to defeat ltte using violence if needs be

-

Their cadres too are human you know, not rabid blood thirsty animals like you make them out to be.
really? they are criminals as their well substantiated actions prove and should be treated like that. if you think otherwise you are an animal not a human
-

that ltte deliberately provoked the more direct war( in one sense war never really stopped as the killings continued from the day 1 of cfa ) was a thing i have said here for so long. your implication that i say some thing different is false
in fact that ltte will provoke the war was predicted by me long before it happened read the old posts .

difference between your and my arguments are not that ltte provoked the war, but i think they did so because they felt themselves to be strong and not because they were becoming weak as you think. i gave my grounds based on what actually happened during cfa for thinking so above . you have not given any supporting evidence for your argument except for the split ( which like earlier splits would have happened anyway and would just as well have been suppressed ) relying on unsupported speculation.

i will clarify this even further below, so that you do not have any further excuse to run away and avoid addressing my objections to your arguments here.
in spite of my making the following points several times above, you and human etc. deliberately avoid addressing them . any rational person( you have shown your self not to be one so far ) willing to advance the discussion will have to address them.


1
contrary to what you and human say ltte strengthened during cfa . as i pointed out
"in addition to regaining control of east( after the split), as i said above .., ltte rearmed ( including with air planes ) , fortified new areas ( including sampoor etc ) , collected financial resources ( helped by unhampered foreign travel , taxes collected at checkpoints to their areas, etc . etc), extended their propaganda machine (helped among others by norwegians (with broadcasting equipment) and ngo peaceniks ), killed its tamil opponents ( including democaratic leaders like min. kadiragarmar) killed military's most effective intelligence and long rang fighting men .. .. i can go on and on ..."

you have to nullify these facts if your argument is to succeed .

2
your speculations that ltte puppet politicians will be revealed for what they are and that ltte will be revealed as blood thirsty oppressors etc and will lose credibility and popularity with people, international community and its other supporters etc etc is also false.

they are and have never been popular in the first place, and they in fact increased their credibility by being treated as equal with gosl under cfa.
secondly anyone who do not already recognize ltte's bloodthirstiness given its well documented actions will never do so , peace or no peace.
thirdly unpopularity and lack of credibility will not result in defeat or overthrow of armed criminals . as i have said above hitlers, castros, kims, stalins, etc etc of this world maintained their power without all that using power of armed violence. only way to defeat them (other than to wait them out for decades and decades so that they will die out. an uncertain option we do not have) is to militarily defeat their armed capability thus depriving their ability yo to maintain control

you have to nullify this argument as well if your argument is to succeed

by deliberately avoiding addressing my fact based objections above and by merely repeating that ltte will be defeated without war you are proving yourself incapable of rational thought .
that is far from "solid strategy " you claim:-)

--
With regard to your personal bias - it's plain for everyone to see. You lick the feet of this govt and sing their songs.
again you are being irrational . i have always based my argument on respect for human rights , justice , democracy and freedom, and reality and verifiable facts.
if you see me making an argument that does not confirm to that quote me. that sometimes ( as with regard to need to defeat ltte terrorists ) what i recommend and support based on those principles is similar to what government does, do not mean i am blindly supporting government . that you are unable to understand this ( and in addition have ignored my criticism of government on other matters) says you are th one who is willfully blind .
opposing ltte terrorists and advocating its defeat using violence if needs be, is not just governments' position, it is the position of all rational moral ppl who are in the real world. if you think it is not, answer the questions i raised .

---
this government has made no effort to win the trust of tamil people......Understand their pain, understand their fears and their dreams. A government that cannot do this will prefer the easy option of war.
I don't think it's necessary to explain to you the background of a vast majority of the LTTE cadres. Though I doubt you understand or care about the circumstances under which they are forced join a worthless cause.....
Fighting the LTTE in the manner that they are being fought now is winning them people, money and sympathy.

:-)
in addition to repeating a mistake i addressed above you make two further mistakes here
1.
you are again confusing tamil grievances with support for ltte. one does not flow from other. a false causality that anyone rational will recognize
let me make it clear ( again )
if anyone supports ltte and its actions (whether or not they have some grievances) they are criminals and should be treated as such. having a grievance does not give you a right to kill innocents, violate human rights etc . those who kill or support killing of innocents etc. should be brought to justice. this is true regardless of whether those grievances are real or fake, and i admit there are lot of grievances , not just to tamils but to various communities and individuals . but they have to work through ( admittedly imperfect) legitimate channels. they have no right to commit crimes .

2
you assume that there is broad support among tamils for ltte due to those grievances and that is why people join it . again false . only a racist like you will believe that tamils support ltte and its atrocities . those who join ltte voluntarily do so with full knowledge of its atrocities and as such are either stupid and/or completely lacking in any moral values .such people would have joined it anyway, grievance or no grievance.

(side note: that some people are forced to join ltte by threats is another reason why that ltte should be be defeated militarily. as i explained above stalin and hisilk etc were able to maintain their hold by such methods, regardless of their popularity etc. )


unless you can nullify these arguments, your are merely repeating of tamil grievances( exaggerated by use of ltte propaganda ), government alleged lack of empathy for them, and then confusing ltte base of support with that. that kind of argument is is irrational and propagandist . you may not care for reason and logic but i do :-)

--
in answer to my point that ""if anyone regardless of their grievances ( real or fake) support ltte they are criminals . and should be treated as such."
you say
You insensitivity towards peoples feelings and the fact that you dont care two hoots about people who are oppressed by this conflict is apparent here. Why don't you try being thrown in jail getting torchered till your mind is numb and see the effect. Your thought process is then changed forever.

yes!! :-)
i do not sympathize with murderers whatever their grievances, you do. i do not support murderous ltte cadres who kill innocents because they have a various grievances ( though ppl with the particular grievance of "torchered till ..mind is numb" would probably not be in position kill anyway ) . i also do not support sinhala racists who killed ( thankfully not for a long time now ) innocents because ltte kill innocents.
it is true that i do not value that kind of sympathy and sensitivity, you do . in fact i hold ppl who excuse and justify criminals who commit such crimes (as you do) in deepest contempt . and your own sentences prove you to be such an animal


--
You say that tamils are not arrested for being tamil. You clearly haven't visited the tid or boosa. Take a look at the hoards of tamil people there. What's their crime?
your irrationality is shown again here .
of course majority of people arrested (according to law)for suspicion of supporting ltte are tamil. in the same way that most ltte cadres are tamil.
but it is irrational and simply stupid (or more likely terrorist propagandist ) to jump from that to say only reason they were arrested is because they were tamil . ( this is similar your your racist identification of tamils with ltte above ) . that there are probably few hundred people in total ( most of them temporarily )in detention throughout the island does not take way the fact that there are millions of tamils in sri lanka .

ltte does commit various types of atrocities and there are peopel who help ltte with them. it is the duty of police and other authorities to prevent and arrest those people. this should inevitably involve arresting, if there are grounds, on suspicion. are you denying that?fact that you deliberately ignore all that and willfully distort the argument to say that they are arrested just because they are tamil and fail to make the crucial distinction ( as i pointed out before ) says a lot about your support and active sympathy for terrorists' crimes .

--

Refer your post on the Brad Adams human rights report some time ago. It's your blog if you can't find it how do you expect anyone else to find it.
you mean this

there was no comment made under name "marlon" there as you do here ( you only include that name inside the comments). as such how am i to guess what you are referring to among thousands of comment made in this blog ? just like a irrational idiot to change name and way it is used, and expect me to know that :-)

anyway i will make the very valid arguments then used against the anon/marlon ( you ? ) who asked that i condemn and slander people without evidence and thought we should disregard universal standards of justice.

the universal standards of justice says among others - "innocent till proven guilty" . only racist like you forget that, applying different standards according to race. . if you want to uphold human rights, and want justice to be done, you have to apply the same standards to everyone . i base my argument on that. you on the other hand want to have the cake and eat it at the same time, disregarding all standards justice, human rights, and even reason .


against this argument all you did was to repeat that universal standards of justice should not be applied with regard to gosl and military . so much for silly arguments! :-)

--
If this conflict is to end the first thing is for the leaders of this country to look in to the lives of the people and understand that if they (the people including LTTE cadres and soldiers) can live in peace and prosperity then that is all they want. I very much doubt the capability of our forward thinking leaders to do this.A victory in the war may give us symbolic control of territory but the ethnic conflict and the violence will still continue.
your idiotic irrational ( or terrorist propagandist ) confusion of two different things as cause and affect is apparent here too
everybody wants peace and prosperity. no country in the world has that for everyone.
that does not excuse those who do not have prosperity or are suffering from another grievances to kill innocents or commit other crimes . poverty for instance does not excuse theft . (it is only according to your irrational way of thinking it does ) peaceful well run countries bring to justice those who commit crimes and ensure respect for human rights , justice , democracy and freedom . . sri lanka is not at peace mainly because there is an armed criminal gang called ltte that has as yet not being brought to justice for its crimes . ltte should be treated like all other criminal groups if we are to try to be at peace . that given the nature of ltte includes use of violence against ltte as with other violent criminals

a victory over criminal ltte ( contrary to what you think ) is more than symbolic exactly for that reason. it indicates we have chosen respect for justice, human rights, etc.over betrayal of those principles to get an unsustainable "peace" by appeasement. only a contemptible racist animal like you living in fantasy will think ltte other than criminal and is supported by tamils

-

finally in addition to other points you avoided ( see them clearly pointed out above so that you cannot miss them ) i will clearly point out the main argument which you continue to avoid deliberately
1
existence of ltte is incompatible with real peace that respects standards of justice , human rights , democracy , and freedom.
2
appeasement of ltte by giving those principles up to get "peace" (even temporarily ) is unrealistic and morally unjustifiable.
3
as such it follows that only available course for any pragmatic and decent sri lanakn is to defeat ltte with violence if needs be .

if you object to any of the above say so clearly and in detail. you have not done so, so far, in spite of repeated requests.


why be afraid of logic and reason if you are not an idiotic and immoral terrorist sympathizer?

human said...

oops! Sorry about the delay!You probably thought I must have - to use your own words - 'run like a terrorist coward , fool ' :)

Life has become a bit busy so I am forced to spend less time on blogs. And my wife has put some serious restrictions on the amount of time I can spend on bloggs! (she asks me 'Do you really think you can actually end the war and make everyone live happily ever after just by writing those stupid blogs?' ) :(

You have asked a lot of valid questions which I need to answer. I am going to answer every question you have raised one by one in the order you have raised them. But I have to do it,one at a time. OK?

First in your last post you are saying that I said that you said certain things which you now deny saying.:)

I said you 'see' two choices or options. I didn't say you 'like' those two choices. there is only one that you like out of the two.

Do you still disagree? If so how do explain your own words below

"at most we have the choice between suffering (and letting innocents suffer) while doing nothing and trying our best to get rid of the cause for that suffering "

In other words

choice 1: suffering (and letting innocents suffer) while doing nothing

choice 2:trying our best to get rid of the cause for that suffering

This is what I mean when I said you 'see' only 'two choices'. get it?

you: ("there is only one course open to sri lankans who want human rights, justice, democracy, and freedom, to prevail (and to live)"

Fine! The other is the 'immoral choice' I never said you see two 'moral choices' did I?

So basically it is like me saying you have got two legs and you saying 'Oh No No No I only have one right leg'

So that should clear up what I said about how many choices you see.

Now Let me know if you agree with the following statements.

1. That the number of choices you see is 2.

2. Choice 1 is "suffering (and letting innocents suffer) while doing nothing"

3. Choice 2 is "trying our best to get rid of the cause for that suffering"

4. Choice 2 boils down to one thing. War with the LTTE until it finishes.

5. This is the choice our government has made.

6. And this is the right choice.

Once we have settled this argument about what you said and what you didn't say, we will move on to the other more important questions you have raised in your posts. OK?

Please leave a reply and I will come back as soon as I can.

Buddha dasa said...

if we are libertarians we let people form their countries if they want to. that is ethnicity's LIBERTY. get it?
why should only those ethnicities have independent countries who live near peaceful and civilized neighbours?! i come from an eastern european country and both ethnicities from the same country have formed two succesful separate states. NOBODY died. NOBODY! And yet some singhalese nationalists think it's impossible to have two states on your island.

If the problem was the LTTE, it means that now talks about tamil land can continue, if not it means that singhalese are just not civilized yet, time will tell...

sittingnut said...

human was repeating the same arguments i have replied to earlier so i did not reply.


Buddha dasa (who is leaving comments on my old post under various names today )
"i come from an eastern european country and both ethnicities from the same country have formed two succesful separate states. NOBODY died. NOBODY!"
yes we imagined all the balkan wars.

we should always oppose ppl who try to create ethnically cleansed states as ltte did. there is no evidence that any other major group is sl ever wanted to. tamils are free to seeks redress to grievances through democratic means but that involves give and take with other interest groups in sl.