Thursday, June 01, 2006

morality of peace

benjamin franklin said "there is no such thing as a good war or a bad peace", but he also said, "even peace may be purchased at too high a price". (he was also instrumental in securing french military and financial aid to the war of american independence.)

when it comes to war and peace we cannot make such simple generalized judgments based on sayings of someone else. if we want to judge at all, we have have to come to our own judgment after examining specific particulars of each case.

as citizens of sri lanka we are responsible for what happens here. we cannot disclaim that responsibility, if we do, we might as well not be living here. if we accept the responsibility, we have to judge what happens here, even if we cannot influence actual events. that is the least we can do.

with ltte pushing for a war we are faced with a decision:
  • should we do all we can to appease the ltte in order to secure 'peace'? or
  • should we continue to hold the strong and patient defensive stance as we are doing right now, knowing well that unless ltte stop the attacks we will eventually be forced (say by a successful attack that results in huge number of military or civilian deaths) into a full scale war as they desire and will be blamed for?
in other words should we avoid war at all costs ? is peace so unqualified a blessing? we have to judge.

peaceniks and their stand
recently somebody wrote that i toss the word 'peacenik' as if 'peace' is an insult. by peacenik i mean people who believe peace is preferable at any cost. i do consider people who take such a stand as no different from warmongers, that is people who advocate war as the only solution.

why?
because such a position indicate a willful disregard of and dismissal of all manner of horrors and sufferings of fellow sri lankans at the hand of ltte in the same way that warmongers dismiss and disregard horrors and sufferings of war. in fact it is worse because even the most extreme warmongers at least try to justify their position, while most peaceniks seem to assume they do not need to justify their stand at all as they are supposedly on self evidently high moral ground. so much so any criticism of their position in one of their rather isolated hangouts will bring down on the critic all manner of shrill attacks.

they also automatically assume that just because they nominally do not side with either the sri lankan government or the ltte, they are 'moderates' holding the middle ground, forgetting that middle is always relative.

peceniks' peace
peace at any cost means giving ltte free reign to continue with what they are already doing . that is license, to suppress all fundamental human rights, to annihilate of all opposition whether organized or not, to ethnically cleanse rest of northeast, to recruit and indoctrinate children to serve an authoritarian ideology, and to exploit all resources in northeast for the furtherance of god-knows-what ambitions of a fascist organization led by a megalomaniac.

in addition, such a peace would mean wholesale amnesty to the ltte leadership. they will literally get away with wholesale murder of thousands of civilians. talk about culture of impunity!

(to accuse the government of same oppressions is besides the point. rest of sri lanka enjoy most fundamental rights and when they are taken away citizens have recourse to courts, there is an active political opposition, a large proportion of population belong to various minorities and are politically influential, children's rights are legally protected, and political leadership is democratically elected. atrocities committed are investigated and as practically possible under limitation imposed by law of evidence and proper procedure perpetrators convicted. all this is not perfect but vastly better than anything under ltte.)

a 'better' ltte?
some would argue that ltte would change for the better,that all people under them will enjoy the freedom to exercise their fundamental rights, that they will grant political freedom to their opponents and not insist they alone are the sole representative, that they will allow remaining sinhalese and muslims in the east to continue living there, that there would not be any need for child soldiers, and that they will concentrate on developing the northeast not furthering their political and military ambitions, when they get control of northeast under a peace agreement.

some may even argue that ltte will submit to some form of justice (say a truth and reconciliation commission as in south africa) for the crimes committed.

may be so, but what if they don't? then are we not going to end up where we are now but with ltte in control of whole northeast? they broke the ceasefire agreement when they chose, several fold more than government, didn't they? isn't that why we are in the present situation in the first place? how are we to react to ltte reneging on peace agreement? are we to depend again on international community to put pressure on them again as they do now and hope for the best? in other words are we to depend completely on ltte's good faith, which they have a history of not keeping? imo no, we shouldn't.

that is why we should take a strong stand now . they agreed to the ceasefire so they should cease fire before we make any more concessions. period.

we should not bend over backward to appease them when they do not abide by agreements and make demands using threats. peace on those terms do not work any more than munich 'peace' of 1938. it will only encourage the ltte and postpone the war. it would mean sri lankan government handing over large portion of its citizens to ltte to oppress or not as they wish, whatever is written on paper.

before we do that we should ensure with certainty that ltte follow through on commitments they agree to and that we and international community has some form of control over them including ability to make ltte pay in case of gross violations.

reality

question is can we achieve that? probably not. quite apart from ltte's present drive for war, it is not likely ltte will submit to anything that will control them even in case they return to peace talks. so peace talks probably wont make any progress.

however if we get them to talks with the help of international community now or after a period of full scale war (which would most likely confirm to everyone that nobody is going to win militarily) we would have scored a victory. ltte's slow but certain deterioration when not at war, already observed in period to november 2005, would be assured. several years of that may make ltte in to something that can be trusted with peace.

until then we have to do exactly what we are doing now; take a strong defensive stand, and make ltte realize that there is no appeaser on this side. we should persist in this even though this may mean full scale meaningless war in the short term, because peace by appeasing is worse and will only postpone the inevitable.

"my good friends, for the second time in our history, a british prime minister has returned from germany bringing peace with honour. i believe it is peace in our time."
neville chamberlain - british prime minister - september 1938

21 comments:

Keshi said...

**because peace by appeasing is worse and will only postpone the inevitable.


I agree..and peace may have to come thru a heavy price..so lets just get on with it.


btw there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS.

Keshi.

ashanthi said...

s/nut - i think i want your next posts to be on the following:-

murders/deaths commited/resulting in S/lanka by the following or as a result of:-
a) the army
b) the police
c) hired thugs (gangs used by the govt who are on a payrol but not officially)
d) denial of human rights
e) institutionalised discrimination
f) segregation of young children on the basis of their race and religon from the day they start kindie - resulting in decades of hatred and misunderstanding between these children when they become adults (and don't you DARE tell me it's not THAT bad)
g) the jvp - and how many sinhalese people they killed
h) the unp - and how many sinhalese people they killed
i) the slfp - and how many sinhalese people they killed
j) buffalo - and how many sinhalese he intends to kill (urged on by none other than you & Keshi???)
k) lack of health infrastucture and how this is going from bad to worse and how many sinhalese people this kills
l) road accidents and how many sinhalese people this kills
m) rampant and completely unabated peodophilia and how many sihalese children this commits to a life of misery and degredation which is akin to death (and DONT tell me NOT to harp on about it)
n) the lack of foreign investment and how this will impact on the future of all sinhalese generations resulting in worse living standards & how many sinhlese future generations this will kill
o) the export of cheap sinhalese labour to middle eastern countries (the way these people are being treated in the homes of their employers in these middle eastern countries is something that charles dickens could not even imagine - worse than dogs is a first hand account that I have heard)
p) the number of sinhalese that were affected by the Tsunami for whom not one BLOODY cent has been spent unless they live near hambantota
q) the number of sinhalese who are dying as a result of "PEACENIKS"?
r) the number of sinhalese - civilians that is that are dying because of tamils
s) the number of sinhalese that are dying because an idiot like you cannot work out what is really going on here and you think all you need to do is write articles about how the PEACNIKS are getting it wrong and that will explain the death of half a million sinhalese people for NO GOOD REASON

Kindly refrain from equating fuckwits like Indi and his pathetic club of underage followers with the work of some of the most courageous people in the world - you know exactly who I mean, who have been fighting for peace for decades, inspite of being subject to ridicule and far worse by the likes of you and who have asked for nothing in return.

Cut it out & stop being a complete and utter moron.

Lots of love, as always and no I'm not a SPOOF!

ashanthi said...

oh and then sorry - once you've given me an answer and some real stats (not from any PEACENIKS who also care about the suffering of sinhalese people) then feel free to write about the worst enemy of the sinhalese people ... the ltte

Morquendi said...

So sittingnut, what's your solution?

we should persist in this even though this may mean full scale meaningless war in the short term

are you willing to fight this war that you ask for?

if no, shut up.

if yes, i'll give you the address of your nearest army camp. go join.

Morquendi said...

And Keshi,

there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS

what do you have to say about the JVP?

what do you have to say about the zapatistas?

and when the colonised around the world fought their colonisers they were terrorists.

it's all about perspective. one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

sittingnut said...

keshi:
there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS.
quite true

ashanthi:
do calm down (i suppose you are really angry and i am afraid this comment will not help )

unless you are calm you tend to write comments like the above, most of which does not make any point and is off topic.

in fact why not write a new post yourself about the things you allege(or more correctly imply) more clearly giving your version.
( i see you are short on detail, why not get morq to help you, :-) )

i will stick to the subject.

q) the number of sinhalese who are dying as a result of "PEACENIKS"?
it is the ltte that kills, peaceniks just excuse them . and peaceniks should acknowledge that peace at any cost means killings and other horrors committed by ltte will continue as they do now, with impunity. that is what this post was about .
can one morally justify peace on those terms? no imo.
if you think ltte will behave differently in future, explain why, and why so far they have not.

r) the number of sinhalese - civilians that is that are dying because of tamils
bc of 'tamils'? are you equating tamils with ltte? bc that is what some warmongers do.
it is ltte that kill( do you really question that?).
btw as for number, how about the 12 killed 3 days ago to start with.

s) the number of sinhalese that are dying because an idiot like you cannot work out what is really going on here
'here' where ?
do explain what is going on 'here' if yo are so sure.

I mean, who have been fighting for peace for decades, inspite of being subject to ridicule and far worse by the likes of you and who have asked for nothing in return.
fighting for peace indeed! it is just bc they are not able to see reality and their ideas are idiotic, that they are still where they started.
as for 'asking for nothing'! you have no idea what you are talking about do you?

then feel free to write about the worst enemy of the sinhalese people ... the ltte
this may be news to you but here in colombo we (and even ltte sympathizers like tna mps) don't need permission to write, unlike in ltte territory where anybody not towing the ltte line (and that includes anybody saying somethings you say) will not last long. do you approve of the kind of peace that allows that?

love to you too. :-)

morquendi:
So sittingnut, what's your solution?
i unlike some peaceniks do not presume to give solutions, i merely pointed out the reality and what kind of peace i approve as well as what will happen if ltte comes to talks now or after a war.
and as such why present policy is correct imo

are you willing to fight this war that you ask for?
if no, shut up.
if yes, i'll give you the address of your nearest army camp. go join.

oh the same old argument.
are you saying that if i am in the army, you will accept what i say? :-)
that argument is no more valid than if i ask you whether you live under ltte and its controls in ne,and if not ask you to go live under them.

when are you going to learn that facts or ideas do not become invalid just bc one has not personally experienced or acted on them, they are valid as long as others experience and act on them. i don't expect you to understand that. but some ppl reading this will.

btw if you cannot make an intelligent point at least make a joke bc i unlike you(and big pussy) do not try to shut up ppl opposed to me.

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
you are free to call others terrorists.(and some you mention were/are terrorists nobody here said they weren't, you are arguing with a ghost).
i agree with keshi when she says there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS.
but if you think there are 'better ' terrorists do point them out .

and
if you think terrorism as is a valid method to achieve freedom you are free to say so.
and if you think it is ok to annihilate others fighting for the same 'freedom' by peaceful methods you are free to do so.
and if you think it is ok to kill innocents along the way you are free to do so
and if you think it is ok to use children to achieve freedom you are free do so.
and if you think freedom means preventing ppl enjoying basic human rights yo are free to do so.
etc. etc.

but if you think like that , do express those ideas openly, instead of just implying as you do here. why not write a post clearly stating that ltte is completely justified in using whatever methods it want to achieve its gaols. ( i am sure dbs jeyaraj has already written something similar. why not plagiarize it if words fail you.)

why be a hypocritical peacenik when you can be a 'freedom fighter' ? huh?

uttara said...

i donno when world will move peacefully ...

terrorist should be washed out completely ..
donno when????????
good thought sittingnut...

u take care

Morquendi said...

sorry sittingnut, but keshi doesn't know what she's talking about.

there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS.

that statement is not even gramatically correct. does she mean that the LTTE is the best bunch of terrorists and that no one else can be better than them? or does she mean that terrorists in general can never be anything else?

perhaps if she could clarify what she means, then we could talk about it. or, since you agree with her, perhaps you could clarify. or are you in the habit of agreeing with things you don't really understand?

and smittennut, i love the way you jump to your lady love's defense without any hesitation! and without even being asked to.

jumping jumping giving!

ashanthi said...

oh spare me the lectures and write the posts bossy boots ... come on I dare you -

you know I don't get angry with you - you just can't face facts or maybe you are getting jealous because I love Morq just as much as I love you :-)

Now - I hope you have voted for Miss Sri lanka, I know she doesn't look like one of us really but it doesn't matter I want her to win - so please vote now...

Sent to me by a true patriot (unlike a true goose such as yourself s/nut) - please go to the link and vote for Miss Sri Lanka

Go to the following link and vote for Miss Sri Lanka to be on top in the Miss Universe competition.
At the moment she is in the 2nd Place.
Go to the following link. Then Go to the bottom right hand corner. (Miss Universe Poll Watch)

Select Sri Lanka. Then submit. (Don't select any other country)

http://www.missosology.org/missuniverse06/index.html
Please do this and spread the word to other Sri Lankans.

and sittingnut a few more things

1. STOP BEING STUBBORN
2. STOP SHUING me off back to my blog
3. STOP FIGHTING WITH MORQ!@#%!@#%!@ - go fight with Indi if you want to pick fights...

Morquendi said...

what kind of peace i approve

?????

and what if this 'kind of peace' that you approve also invloves the deaths of a thousands of combatants and civilians? you sound like Albright saying the lives of 50,000 iraqi children was the price to pay for putting pressure on Saddam.

who are you to decide what price should be paid? you're not paying anything. you're just sitting around and complaining.

you say we're paying a heavy price for peace and we need war. well you're not the one who's going to pay the price when we return to war. you're going to be safe and sound.

the LTTE wants a war. so give it to them. you and wimal and athuruliye can join the frontlines. but you won't.

coward.

or rather, cowardly warmonger.

sittingnut said...

uttara:
thanks for visiting. :-)

terrorist should be washed out completely
yes you are right.

ashanthi
oh spare me the lectures and write the posts bossy boots ... come on I dare you -
why? what does they have to do with appeasing the ltte to achieve peace?

thanks for the miss sri lanka link. just voted. she is second now. :-)

2. STOP SHUING me off back to my blog

i am not shooing you back besides i will visit.

you know I don't get angry with you - you just can't face facts or maybe you are getting jealous because I love Morq just as much as I love you :-)
what facts?
and yes i know you cannot be angry :-)
i love you too :-)

sittingnut said...

morquendi
unable to come up with valid arguments this pathetic peacenik launches into personal attacks. which btw only shows his own frustrations.

anyway
he now says about keshi's statement "there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS."
that statement is not even gramatically correct. ....
are you in the habit of agreeing with things you don't really understand?.


before he understood it well enough to argue that
it's all about perspective. one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

why is it that he does not understand now ?
may be he is unable to come up with a reply to what i wrote in reply to his 'freedom fighter' argument?

if you think terrorism as is a valid method to achieve freedom you are free to say so.
and if you think it is ok to annihilate others fighting for the same 'freedom' by peaceful methods you are free to do so.
and if you think it is ok to kill innocents along the way you are free to do so
and if you think it is ok to use children to achieve freedom you are free do so.
and if you think freedom means preventing ppl enjoying basic human rights yo are free to do so.
etc. etc.

but if you think like that , do express those ideas openly, instead of just implying as you do here. why not write a post clearly stating that ltte is completely justified in using whatever methods it want to achieve its gaols. ( i am sure dbs jeyaraj has already written something similar. why not plagiarize it if words fail you.)

why be a hypocritical peacenik when you can be a 'freedom fighter' ? huh?

---

and what if this 'kind of peace' that you approve also invloves the deaths of a thousands of combatants and civilians?

my argument was that peace at any cost (ie. peace by appeasing) as peaceniks advocate would also involve deaths and suffering, and will only postpone the inevitable. unless ltte is genuinely working for a peaceful pluralistic society respecting human rights, appeasing them wont work any more that appeasing nazis in 1938.
of course morquendi as usual try to run away from the question. he never answer whether he approves handing over of large number of sri lankans to ltte's 'care' in order that we might have peace.

the LTTE wants a war. so give it to them. you and wimal and athuruliye can join the frontlines. but you won't.
coward.
or rather, cowardly warmonger.

when he runs out of argument he ends up with the same old one. how pathetic can he be. this was already answered several times including above. but as i predicted this peacenik cannot understand.

Anonymous said...

Keshi,
***btw there can NEVER be a BETTER bunch of TERRORISTS.

Did you mean that there can never be a WORSE bunch of terrorist ?

Morquendi said...

unless ltte is genuinely working for a peaceful pluralistic society respecting human rights,

you think the sri lankan government is doing that?

Anonymous said...

damn it sittingnut, Marquendi has a magic want and he will cast a spell and we'll have peace...it's as simple as that...that's why all the NGOs keep repeating the word "peace" as if it is a mantra...the problem is...fools like you don't get it and keep bringing up various kinds of analysis..but your efforts at understanding are bound to fail because you don't comprehend the fact that the NGO types are fiddling with magic and it's just a matter of time before their chants of "peace" brings forward the desired results...
You fool! you wonder whether the tigers are interested in peace and analyze their behaviour as if the intentions of the tigers matters at all! All your logical analysis and forecasts will have tp be swept aside to make way for the inevitable realisation of peace through NGO sponsored repeated chantting of the word peace..peace..peace..peace......anyone who dares to question the validity of magic will be ......we'll....the NGO types have found various ways of handling such fools who think it is important to logically analyze the situation.....just use big words like "extremist", "intolerant" etc. like a mantra over and over and over until those words become synonamous with the fool who dares to question the wisdom of NGO civic society representitives bending over backwords to accomodate every and all demands of the Vanni tigers.

sittingnut said...

anon of 6/03/2006 07:07:41 am
most ppl ( at least ones i know, including keshi) does not consider terrorism 'good' or a benefit. keshi's understandable mistake was to assume that all ppl accept that. clearly morquendi and co think(at least when they have no other arguments) terrorists are 'good' and thus can be 'better'. only a person who think like that can mistake the meaning of keshi's statement .

anon at 6/03/2006 8:53 pm
:-)
thanks for the comment

morquendi said,
you think the sri lankan government is doing that?

i dealt with that in the post itself. clearly he did not read.

to accuse the government of same oppressions is besides the point. rest of sri lanka enjoy most fundamental rights and when they are taken away citizens have recourse to courts, there is an active political opposition, a large proportion of population belong to various minorities and are politically influential, children's rights are legally protected, and political leadership is democratically elected. atrocities committed are investigated and as practically possible under limitation imposed by law of evidence and proper procedure perpetrators convicted. all this is not perfect but vastly better than anything under ltte

yes, i know that to expect morquendi to read before making comments, is to expect too much.

Keshi said...

Morquendi...u may be right that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. But u call child-killers freedom fighters? Havent u heard of freedom fighters who did it the right and civil way..ppl like Gandhi and Mandela?

Keshi.

Discombobulator said...

You people still on this shit? Disco Bob moved on months ago. Suggests you do the same. Seriously. More relaxing, having the big issues cascade off your head like flakes of dandruff after a good dose of Head & Shoulders, or the new Lifebouy. Also improves your performance in bed (which is also why I haven't invaded blogs lately, but let's leave it at that).

Ashanthi - nice to see you're still making sense in inverse proportion to the length of your posts. That you next to the mini?

sittingnut said...

discombobulator
so you are still alive! glad to see you, but what happened to (sic) part ?

as for leaving off . well somethings are worth the dandruff and there is always the shampoo and viagra if it comes to that. thanks for the ad.
:-)

Anonymous said...

Ohhhhhhh !!!!! The real peaceniks identified. Thanks brother. Forget tamil people who oppose the LTTE vote for Ms. Sri Lanka. Message is rather clear.

sittingnut said...

anonymous
:-)
do vote if ltte allows