Thursday, June 29, 2006

a hero of our time


funeral of major general (posthumously promoted to the rank of lieutenant general) parami kulatunga , deputy chief of staff of the sri lanka army, took place yesterday with full military honors. he, like hundreds of other servicemen killed daily by ltte terrorists, was a true hero of our time. they are the ones who are fighting against a totalitarian regime that oppress all those who are under it, whatever their race. as i said after the attempt on army commander's life they are our pride. we were not shy to say it then; we are not shy to say it now.

while some try to rationalize and justify terror as perceived 'justice', 'freedom' struggle, etc. equating tamils with terrorists in denial of facts on the ground, and advocate appeasement so that we may live in 'peace' in colombo while all sri lankans in northeast will continue to suffer, it is the military that has to face the full brunt of the terror. while (sri lankan?) blogosphere is posting and talking of doing 'something' about the violence with a vagueness and a disconnect from reality that takes one's breath away, sri lankan military is actually doing what is required to be done, with reality fully in the face. .

military is facing daily ltte attacks with restraint (as they have done since last december) and with limited retaliatory strikes occasionally (since the attempt on army commander in april). as i said in april they are the ones who are keeping us from war, while ltte tries its best to provoke a full scale war with its attacks on both military and civilian targets. they have to continue with the same strategy until ltte either stop the violence and return to peace talks or provoke a full scale war on its own responsibility. given the resources available and current circumstances, that is the best method forward in order to ultimately defeat or contain ltte effectively, which is a necessary precondition for real peace.

some peaceniks and the ltte propaganda machine, as usual in unison, cry out that there is no restraint and the military target civilians based on few incidents of indiscipline. but they are just that, incidents of indiscipline. compared to the number of attacks faced by the military and number of soldiers killed number of such incidents are few. sri lankan military discipline compares favorably with almost any another army in a conflict situation, certainly with coalition forces in iraq. however that does not excuse the perpetrators of those crimes. they should be properly investigated, and punished if found guilty, or released if found innocent. in fact all such incidents are been investigated. it is also significant that peaceniks are nowhere to be seen when ltte intentionally target civilians including children continuously in an unsuccessful effort to provoke a communal backlash.

let them hide. let us honor those who fought and sacrificed in order that justice, freedom, democracy, human rights, and ultimately real peace, will be enjoyed by all in sri lanka.

29 comments:

Morquendi said...

has the military ever investigated, tried or punished those in their ranks who are responsible for warcrimes?

they haven't. and they won't. they protect their own. and morons like you protect them.

the LTTE are terrorists. even though it's not right, one expects terrorists to kill civilians. that's what makes them terrorists.

the sri lanka army on the other hand is the military of the state. even you compare them to a terrorist outfit and say they're better. it takes very little to be better than a terrorist.

the way the sri lankan military, (more the navy and the airforce than the army) behave in the north and east is shameful, and all sri lankans should be ashamed of it.

i don't think a military that is slightly better than a terrorist outfit is something to be proud of.

sittingnut said...

morquendi
has the military ever investigated, tried or punished those in their ranks who are responsible for warcrimes?
they haven't. and they won't. they protect their own. and morons like you protect them.

have they not? are there no military in prison?
they have and some military are in prison. you as always get facts wrong. calling me a moron wont change the facts.
in addition do you want ppl put there without an investigation? without regard to due process or laws of evidence?
you probably think so, or probably do not want to answer that. that is your basic deficiency.

the LTTE are terrorists. even though it's not right, one expects terrorists to kill civilians. that's what makes them terrorists.
you mean they fulfill their job description as terrorists to your satisfaction? i suppose you would be calling big pussy to be put in jail if they stopped targeting civilians?

the sri lanka army on the other hand is the military of the state. even you compare them to a terrorist outfit and say they're better. it takes very little to be better than a terrorist.
i did not compare them to terrorists. i compared them to other military forces in other conflicts. lapses in discipline in sl military is no more (actually less ) than any other military engaged in a conflict , and these lapses are and should be investigated and criminals punished that is what i said.
read before commenting.

the way the sri lankan military, (more the navy and the airforce than the army) behave in the north and east is shameful, and all sri lankans should be ashamed of it.
say so in your blog openly with evidence . why don't you ? no evidence? only your prejudices go on? only ltte propaganda to back you up?

i don't think a military that is slightly better than a terrorist outfit is something to be proud of.
as you wish. if you want to believe that shameful behavior of few undisciplined idiots (who are being investigated) is enough to convict thousands of honest innocent brave ppl you are free to do so.

if you think military intentionally attack civilians as a policy, in spite of the fact there is no evidence for that, that only few cases of indiscipline has taken place , and that millions of tamil civilians live within military protection, you are free to do so.

what kind of person does that make you? ppl are also free to judge that too

sach said...

You say, "as i said after the attempt on army commander's life they are our pride".Why? Because our security is so weak that even the Army Commander is vulnerable? How safe does that make a civilian feel?

And you speak of Parami Kulatunga. "he, like hundreds of other servicemen killed daily by ltte terrorists". His killing was as different as a killing on the war front could be. When a man travels on the same road at the same time everyday in full military regalia, he should realize that he is an easy target.Comparing his death to that of a soldier who dies on the war front because he has no other choice but be there, is not fair by those 'hundreds' you speak of.

You say, "some peaceniks and the ltte propaganda machine, as usual in unison, cry out that there is no restraint and the military target civilians based on few incidents of indiscipline. but they are just that, incidents of indiscipline."

How do you know?How do you justify your point? Is it by what the Army Spokesperson says? By so called official sources? Speak to people who have been to the North and the East. Maybe you will stop praising the forces after that.

The LTTE's actions cannot be justified but nor can the Security Forces' actions. Especially retaliation after attacks which result in the deaths of civilians.

If you think there's a clear line between the good guys and the bad guys in this war, you're wrong.

Voice_in_Colombo said...

...\\the way the sri lankan military, (more the navy and the airforce than the army) behave in the north...(Comment by Morquendi)

Now, doesn't this represent the LTTE's resistance towards the Navy, more than for the Army & AF?

Truth is, LTTE hates Navy more than Army & AF, is because Navy is their greatest barrier for illegal arm deals and drug deals. And Navy restrict tigers from freely moving in and out from the country. So, for LTTE to establish more stronger, they need to get rid of Navy, more than the Army or AF.

And the "Moron" is cleverly representing this ideology of the tigers.

Now, who's the "Moron" protecting terrorists?

sittingnut said...

sach:

Why? Because our security is so weak that even the Army Commander is vulnerable? How safe does that make a civilian feel?
one, you have not read the post. i said why i am proud and honor the military in the post here and in the original. read.first. or is it that you don't have answers for that?
second, if you think security can be made 100% sure as long as ltte lasts you are in a dream world. there will be more deaths in the city as long as ltte will be there. only way to do that is to defeat or contain ltte.
When a man travels on the same road at the same time everyday in full military regalia, he should realize that he is an easy target.
so i suppose you think he killed himself? he was a target whether he was in uniform or out. if he shut himself completely in a army camp or abroad he may have been safe, otherwise, no.

Comparing his death to that of a soldier who dies on the war front because he has no other choice but be there, is not fair by those 'hundreds' you speak of.
really? did they not die for the same cause? did they not die from the same hand? were they all not in the army voluntarily ? war front is every where in this conflict. and this general was a veteran who actually fought in the kind of 'war front ' you mean. get your facts straight.

How do you know?How do you justify your point? Is it by what the Army Spokesperson says? By so called official sources? Speak to people who have been to the North and the East. Maybe you will stop praising the forces after that.
now at last we get to the actual cause of your anger. be honest don't hide behind words. you hate the military.
are you telling me they are not cases of indiscipline? are you telling me that military targets civilians as a policy? and that these incidents of indiscipline( or deliberate army killing according to you ) are widespread ? provide the evidence . as i asked morquendi why don't you? is it bc you have only ltte propaganda to help you ? if you have, then i can have look. but elsewhere there is no evidence to suggest they were not cases of indiscipline.
if you read this blog and if you seen my comments elsewhere you would have noticed i question the sources. i don't depend on official sources. all sources indicate that they ere probably works of military personnel going berserk after an attack that killed fellow soldiers or plain criminal activity . that is indiscipline.
i will not stop praising the forces bc of few idiots. as i said to morquendi, if you want to convict thousands bc of few were undisciplined, go right ahead. i don't.

you tell me to speak to ppl who have been to north east. well i do every day i speak to ppl who live there every day too. and i have been there myself. does that make any difference? no. if you have any allegation to make it yourself, don't pass the ball to 'people who have been to the North and the East'. they don't accept it.

The LTTE's actions cannot be justified but nor can the Security Forces' actions. Especially retaliation after attacks which result in the deaths of civilians.
are you alleging that security forces intentionally target civilians?
or do you think unintentional deaths make security forces equally responsible?
are we not in a conflict? in all conflict civilians die that is one of the horrors of war. but only terrorists like ltte intentionally target them as a policy.

if you prefer peace what kind of peace do you prefer? one that appease the ltte which already runs a oppressive totalitarian regime in their areas? or one that ensure justice, freedom, democracy and human rights to all? if the later do you think ltte is compatible with it? if it is not compatible and threaten the rest of country has not the democratically elected government a right and duty to defend itself and defeat ltte? in spite of that has it not shown restraint preferring to contain ltte through negotiations? who is not coming to talks ? in the end government is justified in limited retaliatory strikes against ltte targets .
what do you propose instead? more appeasement?

If you think there's a clear line between the good guys and the bad guys in this war, you're wrong.
there is a clear line between those who target civilians intentionally and those who do not . between ppl who investigate those who kill innocents and those who reward them. that is for a start.
if you do not think there is a clear line, that is your problem.

anyway thanks for the comment.

voice_in_colombo
morquendi just spouts out whatever comes to his mind. he evidendly cannot read. and has no idea about logic. that is why he is so bitter and prefers as you have noticed words like 'moron'. you will probably here more as time goes on.
but he is good as entertainment.
anyway thanks for visiting. :-)

sach said...

Sittingnut,

You're welcome.

I have a right to my opinion and you to yours.I still think the last suicide attack was one that could have been prevented.There has been a pattern in the last few attacks where terrorists observed the schedules of their targets and attacked at a vulnerable moment (i.e- Sarath Fonseka, Lakshman Kadirgamar,etc) So it is unbelievable that another attack of the same sort had to happen within such a short span.

You say "there is a clear line between those who target civilians intentionally and those who do not." If you DO question official sources as you say you do, you will not be so sure of that.

No I don't hate the military. I don't approve of some of the things they do. That's all.

The kind of peace I want is "one that ensures justice, freedom, democracy and human rights to all". But by "all" i mean ALL. I don't leave out the civilians who were killed 'accidentally'.

Like morquendi said, it is not an achievement for the army to be better than the LTTE. They have to prove that they are a good army and so far I don't think they have.

Spooky said...

Morquendi, there are plenty of examples of servicemen being investigated, tried, and convicted of warcrimes. Here are a few off the top of my head:

Kokkadicholai -- the Army platoon commander was courtmartialled.

The JVP-era crime (when all those schoolboys were killed) -- 5-6 soldiers were convicted.

The famous rape case in Jaffna where a girl was raped and murdered -- the culprits were imprisoned.

Sorry, I can't remember names in these instances, but I'm sure others can. There are many other instances, these are just the ones that come to mind.

Morquendi, you may disagree with Snut, but get your facts right, because these mistakes are crippling your other arguments.

Sach, 100% security is impossible. Even the most expert western nations (US, UK, Israel) have had their security penetrated. Perfection requires measures of draconian nature, which I'm sure you'll be one of the first to complain about.

sittingnut said...

sach:
point taken about similarity of attack but (as spooky also says) 100% security(anything close to it) will result in draconian measures (ppl are complaining about checkpoints, searches, registrations etc. even now) or complete ineffectiveness of the protected.

You say "there is a clear line between those who target civilians intentionally and those who do not." If you DO question official sources as you say you do, you will not be so sure of that.
:-) why? official and non official sources (some quite hostile to official version)all indicate they were cases of indiscipline. with some official versions claiming they were not even that. based on all sources i think they were cases of indiscipline. if you have any evidence or any source that indicate they were not cases of indiscipline pl put them forward.
i certainly don't believe i have to believe the exact opposite of official version merely bc it was the official version, you seem to be of that opinion.

I don't hate the military. I don't approve of some of the things they do. That's all.
what things exactly? pl elaborate with evidence( here or in your blog) . then we will see whether they were acts of individuals or the military as a whole were responsible. then we will see whether your 'disapproval' of the military is rational or not.

The kind of peace I want is "one that ensures justice, freedom, democracy and human rights to all". But by "all" i mean ALL. I don't leave out the civilians who were killed 'accidentally'.
you are free to believe this is a perfect world without crimes or accidents
in reality there are violent criminals who intentionally kill innocents, we catch them or kill them to prevent them from continuing, innocents do die in the process accidentally (btw not only when there is a war). we have to choose between leaving and/or appeasing the criminals to continue with killing, or kill/catch them.
sorry, that is the reality.
you are free to face it or live in a fantasy (only if you do not live under the criminal's control of course, those (esp children) living under them do not have even that option ) .

Like morquendi said, it is not an achievement for the army to be better than the LTTE. They have to prove that they are a good army and so far I don't think they have.
so you think the army is better than ltte now after claiming they were no better earlier ?
and as i said (read my reply)to morquendi i did not make that comparison, only you and he did . i do not compare criminals with policemen either.
you are free to think what you want of army, since you think they are guilty of..... what exactly ? you always leave that part to others. as i said above pl elaborate with details.

thanks for the comment. (no personal offense intended)

spooky:
appreciate your comment. :-)

SpectralCentroid said...

Dude, just saw this post. I commend you for it and for actually taking time to answer point by point to these morons. I for one couldn't even read through them (just like half the shit related to the terrorist problem that appears on our blogs).

Respect to this man, and all other men and women who have laid down their lives and are still out there going through shit to protect this country, without whom none of these cyber theorist morons will be alive to fantasize about a tiger dick sucking nation.

Keshi said...

**the LTTE are terrorists. even though it's not right, one expects terrorists to kill civilians. that's what makes them terrorists.

Morquendi ur right...terrorists will be terrorists. But arent the terrorists the reason behind the military forces' actions? When u cant target certain hiding terrorists, the forces bomb the areas where they think the losers might be hiding. As a result of that COLLATERAL DAMAGE occurs - innocent civilians die. Thats what any army is doing ard the world. Don't expect the armies to read ppl's minds or scan who's good and bad.

When terrorists kill senselessly, all I can say is 'REAP WHAT YOU SOW'.

Keshi.

Morquendi said...

Keshi,

So I guess the Navy shot up the church in Pesalai because they were trying to kill some terrorists who were hiding inside? I guess the Navy killed the 5 schoolchildren in Trinco because they were terrorists.

Don't talk about what you don't know about. I guess you'd really like it if someone bombed the shit outtta your house and had your family blown to tenny weeny little bits because a bunch of terrorists live nearby. It's ok as long as it's other people who're the collateral damage, but put yourself in their position. It might not make so much sense then.

There are rules for war that are designed to protect civilians. Even though terrorists do not adhere to those rules, militaries of a state, like the Sri Lanka Army, Navy and Air Force are bound by those rules and conventions. This what is supposed to make them better than terrorists. This is what is suppoed to make them the defenders of what's right.

I would invite you to visit the North and East of Sri Lanka and speak to Tamil villagers who have seen their families executed by the army, or Sinhala villagers who have seen their families butchered by the LTTE. It becomes a little hard to talk about collateral damage when you're trying to explain it to someone who lost their 4 children to a stray bomb.

So it would be really stupid of you to say that's how war is. That's not how war is. Just because you haven't heard the concept of rules of war before, that doesn't mean they don't exist, or aren't applicable.

It would be nice if you read a litte more about these things before you come and shoot of your mouth here. Makes you look really really stupid.

sittingnut said...

spectralcentroid
thanks.
respect will always be paid where it is due.

keshi :
thanks for the comment.
morquendi too will 'reap what he sow'.

morquendi
--
Navy shot up the church in Pesalai
navy as a policy?
shot up?

Navy killed the 5 schoolchildren in Trinco
navy? do you mean stf? stf as a policy?
schoolchildren?

you are the one who is talking of things he does not know.
so you cannot get correct facts of even such widely covered cases. you really cannot read can you ?

as i said before ;
if you want to believe that shameful behavior of few undisciplined idiots (who are being investigated) is enough to convict thousands of honest innocent brave ppl you are free to do so.

if you think military intentionally attack civilians as a policy, in spite of the fact there is no evidence for that, that only few cases of indiscipline has taken place , and that millions of tamil civilians live within military protection, you are free to do so.

what kind of person does that make you? ppl are also free to judge that too

----

There are rules for war that are designed to protect civilians.
care to enumerate them or link them? and how exactly sl military is in breach of them?
too much detail for you to handle? too much work for you for that?
is it easier to spread rumors as in nittewa?

So it would be really stupid of you to say that's how war is. That's not how war is. Just because you haven't heard the concept of rules of war before, that doesn't mean they don't exist, or aren't applicable.
so you know of a war which was fought according to your unspecified 'rules and conventions' of war ? please give details? about those 'rules' and the 'war' so fought. or is that too much work for you ?

It would be nice if you read a litte more about these things before you come and shoot of your mouth here. Makes you look really really stupid.
look who is talking!

do not try to order ppl here. that makes you even more pathetic than you are (if that is possible).

they make sense, you never could.

It becomes a little hard to talk about collateral damage when you're trying to explain it to someone who lost their 4 children to a stray bomb.
so you want to appease the ltte bc of that? feel free to say so.
anyway don't pretend given your comments here, that you can actually make sense talking about anything to anyone, even about weather, let alone to parents who had children killed due to war.
and don't exaggerate and pass hearsay accounts from other people as your own knowledge.

and don't assume other ppl (that includes keshi, myself, and lots of others in sl ) do not have relatives and friends killed in the war or not seen the horror of it first hand.
difference between you and most ppl is your inability to face reality or even grasp what is going on, your all too ready belief that ltte 'fights' on behalf of tamils, and your eagerness to appease the ltte.

even after facts are repeatedly pointed out, and any contrary facts, if any, are repeatedly asked for, you live in denial and never provide the asked for details to prove your points.

as long as that continue you will write comments like the ones here.

you are free to write them. just rememeber others can read and judge who you are really.

Keshi said...

~~Morquendi

I just checked ur profile n it says ur a TV Producer - now I know the reason behind ur hyped up sense of Mr.Know-It-All :):)

**So I guess the Navy shot up the church in Pesalai because they were trying to kill some terrorists who were hiding inside?

does anyone at all know the TRUTH behind the attack? If the LTTE (the terrorists) want to fight the Armies and kill innocents in that process, then they should expect the same on their people. That's all that I meant. Nothing else.


And don't judge ppl so quickly. Im not 100% Sinhalese either. I'm half Tamil and spent most of my chidlhood holidays in Jaffna with my grandparents. And neither am I sitting comfortably here in Aus n talking abt something that I really don't know much abt. How ignorant of u to suggest that I'm ill-informed w.o. even knowing what experiences I have had in life. Shows what a small mind u have.

Anyways d u know that my dad worked in the forces and mostly in Jaffna too b4 his untimely death - no he didnt die in the war. Anyways he was a good-hearted man who didn't see any color or creed. That's why he married a Tamil woman. That's how I learnt not to JUDGE anyone or take any side. Cos my parents taught me what it is to think fairly and clearly. And to always find the root cause for any unfairness. Who's problem is it that thousands of Tamils r dying daily? Who started on terror?


**It's ok as long as it's other people who're the collateral damage, but put yourself in their position.

Who said it's OK? If a bomb dropped on my head as a result of war, who is to be blamed? You tell me. btw I have been to Jaffna many times. 2 of my uncles (a Sinhalese and a Tamil) and some other innocent friends have died in the war too - from the forces as well as innocent civilians. D u think I dun have a heart? That I dun respect and value these ppl's lives? If anyone is taking sides, I'd be the last on Earth to do that. U R the one who's taking sides here. U dun seem to realise and value the blood n tears of the forces and their families. As well as the innocent Sinhalese who die cos of this stupid terrorists. It is u who dun have respect for all races. It is u who dun seem to know how low terrorism is and what forces r for.It is u who dun seem to know what real peace is and how it come about.


**Even though terrorists do not adhere to those rules,

so u want the forces to sit quietly as terrorists go on a killing-spree? u r mad. U sound really dumb when u say that and it's not a very practical thing ur suggesting. Be realistic mate - ur compassion is good for the temples only - not for a war-tone Jaffna/Trinco. Forces r made to fight just as much as terrorists r made to spread terror. U USE TERROR AND U GET TERROR. Try talking peace to a mad dog that's abt to bite u..it's something like that!



**That's not how war is. Just because you haven't heard the concept of rules of war before, that doesn't mean they don't exist, or aren't applicable.

lol ok tell us the rules of War then. And dun forget to mention one war in history (against terrorists) that didnt claim innocent lives? Tell us plz...we r all waiting to hear. btw if that's not what War is then we have the right to tell that the LTTE's freedom-fight is not a real freedom-fight either. Gandhi is what a real freedom-fighter was. U cant call some bunch of rabid terrorists freedom fighters. Can u? They r killing others at the risk of their own ppl's lives. Who's fault is it? They r even shameless to employ women n children as suicide bombers n terrorrists. What d u do with such ppl? I say erase em all. If there's any innocent tamils who really value peace and dun support the LTTE, move to a different place. Why live among the terrorists at the risk of being killed?



**It would be nice if you read a litte more about these things before you come and shoot of your mouth here. Makes you look really really stupid.


Peace comes thru Peace only. Violence can never bring Peace. Know that Mr.TV Producer. And better tell the LTTE that too. U r the one who sounds like the biggest idiot breathing on this planet now. Sorry to break the news.


Keshi.

sittingnut said...

keshi:
thank you very much for the comment and especially the patience shown.

Morquendi said...

Sittingnut, speak when you're spoken to. At all other times sit quietly in the corner and stare at the wall.

And stop repeating yourself. If someone doesn't get something, they're not going to get it if you say it a million times. Mahinda Rajapakse and Wimal Weerawanse try that all the time.

Keshi, a series of questions. Try asnd keep the answers short. Thank you :) No rambles darling. Please...

Question 01
What does being a TV producer have anything to do with this argument?

Question 02
What stops you from Googling'rules of war'?

Question 03
Why don't you ask Janaka Perera about what the Sri Lankan Army does to civilians. He's an expert.

QUOTE:
"If the LTTE (the terrorists) want to fight the Armies and kill innocents in that process, then they should expect the same on their people. That's all that I meant. Nothing else"

Question 04
Are you saying that if the LTTE kills civilians (which is does) that it's also OK for the military to kill civilians?

Question 05
And who exactly is 'their people' to the LTTE? All Tamils? Some Tamils? Can you define this please. And where do you fit into the picture?

Question 06
Can you please use English the way it's normally written? It really helps mature communication.

And now for this train-of-thought set of questions I want YES/NO answers.

01
Do you think the LTTE can be defeated militarily?

02
Is it possible to bring peace to Sri Lanka without engaging the LTTE in discussion?

03
Can the Tamil people of the North and East trust the Military and the Government of Sri Lanka to do what's best for them? (When we in the South can't trust them?)

Thanks

Electra said...

extensive research and investigation by impartial parties dedicated to this one case have concluded that the sri lankan navy were responsible for that incident in the church in pesalai. it was confirmed today, i heard it on the radio just a while ago.

i try hard not to take sides, only because it's redundant and futile, but like morquendi says, isn't the sri lankan army (or any other army of any other state) supposed to uphold certain ethics in combat that terrorists wouldn't? otherwise, what makes the sri lanka army any different from the LTTE, except that the ones they're supposedly defending are us? what differentiates terrorists from combatants that aren't terrorists? to the innocent civilan caught in the cross fire, isn't the sri lankan army just as much a terrorist as the LTTE?

terror is terror and those that inflict terror and use fear for their advantage are terrorists. it's just subjective, depending on who keeps YOU happy.

sittingnut said...

morquendi
Sittingnut, speak when you're spoken to. At all other times sit quietly in the corner and stare at the wall.
did you think you are in killinochchi or something licking simily pussy's feet? that you can stop ppl from speaking?
fact is you can speak bc of ppl like the one above not bc of your pussy friends.
but of course for a person like you who cannot make one decent coherent argument, the preferred option is to shut the other person up.
do you like everyone else to shut up so that you and your 'fact finding' peaceniks can hold forth uninterrupted using plagiarized ltte propaganda.? dream on.

And stop repeating yourself. If someone doesn't get something, they're not going to get it if you say it a million times. Mahinda Rajapakse and Wimal Weerawanse try that all the time.
well that shows your total inability to answer any of the points i made in my earlier comments even after repeated reminders. and still you pretend to have any honor?
so when you are unable to stand up and answer and is unable to shut up the other fellow, you run away ? lol . then run as fast as you can to your smiley pussy .

and as for your question for which you want short (typical peacenik avoidance of details and avoidance of facts)answers from keshi .
here is my mine( if you want, shout that you did not ask me, but this is not a pussy controlled area)

Question 01
What does being a TV producer have anything to do with this argument?

bc you pretends to know everything and does not give sources. typical.

Question 02
What stops you from Googling'rules of war'?

so you were not sure earlier what 'rules of war' you were referring to when you said military must follow rules of war ?
so you cannot find adequate evidence of sl military breaking any such rule ?
or a war that was fought according to your 'rules of war' ?
you said you know war and we don't! it seems you know only to google. :-)

Question 03
Why don't you ask Janaka Perera about what the Sri Lankan Army does to civilians. He's an expert.
QUOTE:
"If the LTTE (the terrorists) want to fight the Armies and kill innocents in that process, then they should expect the same on their people. That's all that I meant. Nothing else"

is this all you have got?
care to explain the context? or even authenticate this?
or is that too much to ask of a confirmed rumor monger? (see nittewa blog for morquendi's rumor mongering)

Question 04
Are you saying that if the LTTE kills civilians (which is does) that it's also OK for the military to kill civilians?

military does not kill civilians intentionally, only ltte does. a fact you deny without any evidence.
as long as you are unable to show that military intentionally targets civilians this question is not valid.
as for accidental death of civilians that is one of the horrors of war and cannot be avoided only minimized. only realistic way to stop accidental deaths is to stop the conflict and only way to that is to effectively defeat and contain ltte as explained elsewhere in the blog. and military is doing that. that is why we honor it .

Question 05
And who exactly is 'their people' to the LTTE? All Tamils? Some Tamils? Can you define this please. And where do you fit into the picture?

you at least seem to equate ltte's 'fight' with tamil's. and keshi who is partly tamil, does not do so.

Question 06
Can you please use English the way it's normally written? It really helps mature communication.

look who is talking again about mature communication . a person who tries to shut up others, insults other blogers when run out of arguments (if he had any to begin with) -so much so other bloggers have started calling him 'moron' after his own favorite insult instead of morquendi-, fails to stand up or defend his arguments or convictions ( if any) , is unable to substantiate claims made in his comments, goes out of his way to defend plagiarized reports, falls to the level of leaving anon comments when all else fails, etc etc.
as i said look who is talking about maturity :-)

knowing and fearing that even few words can show up his inability to get a grip on any issue he wants only yes and no answers. :-)

01
Do you think the LTTE can be defeated militarily?

depend on the military and the resources available. given the state of the country and its past effectiveness, it is better to defeat ltte or contain it effectively using negotiations. but defeat or containment is a must. ltte in its present form is not compatible with real peace.
and if ltte attacks it should be faced down with a limited military operations and defensive stance, as is the current policy. on no account should there be appeasement.
02
Is it possible to bring peace to Sri Lanka without engaging the LTTE in discussion?

depends on what you mean by 'peace' .
peace that hands over millions of sri lankans to total control and oppression of ltte in its present form? that give amnesty to ltte leadership ? etc.
or a peace that ensure democracy pluralism , justice, human rights, and freedom to all.? second form is not compatible with present ltte . their very demand to be sole representative is against all those things. negotiations are useful only to contain it effectively till ltte changes its form or self destructs.

03
Can the Tamil people of the North and East trust the Military and the Government of Sri Lanka to do what's best for them? (When we in the South can't trust them?)

morquendi may not trust them but others do. and he has no right to speak on behalf of ppl in ne any more than his freinds in the ltte does. and given that ppl in ne live in a conflict situation. only way to build trust is to defeat or contain ltte. and resolve the conflict.

there are no short cuts as there are no yes and no answers. only a person like morquendi can belive there are.

sittingnut said...

electra
can you point out where one can find this 'extensive research and investigation by impartial parties' ? more details please. just claiming to have heard it on the radio while nothing is in other sources will not do.

or do you mean the cpa 'fact finding' report? :-)
there questions regarding the of bias, transparency, independence, and proper procedure( if not plagiarism ) of the so called 'fact finders' that prepared this report, common to this report as well as to their earlier trinco one ( till i or someone else post a detailed examination of this and other recent reports when time permits, you are invited to see questions raised regarding the trico report's inadequacies regarding above, and their continuing validity and inability or unwillingness of those involved to do anything about them.)

like morquendi says, isn't the sri lankan army (or any other army of any other state) supposed to uphold certain ethics in combat that terrorists wouldn't?
as i said to morqendi then what proof is there that even if it was proved that military personnel were involved in the few incidents that have occurred they were deliberate policy of the military ? as i said in the post itself these are cases of indiscipline and in case of so called collateral damage etc. inevitable accidents. do read the post.
if you have proof that military targets civilians as a policy, why don't you produce them?
or do you like morquendi prefer to convict thousands of brave innocent ppl in military without evidence just bc of some isolated actions of a few idiots ?
hope not.

military and gosl will and are carrying out investigations ( do you deny that ? ) and if ppl are indicted and later convicted ( as some previous military personnel have been ) they will go to prison. but the investigations will be carried out within the law with proper regard to laws of evidence and proper procedure. are you saying they should be disregarded? and those accused put in prison with out investigations or court cases ? be clear. vagueness does not help.

what makes the sri lanka army any different from the LTTE, except that the ones they're supposedly defending are us?
they are defending us there is no 'supposedly' about it . that is why you are free to speak as you want in any government controlled area. do you think i will have the right to speak ( let alone write) what i do from ltte controlled area? that is just one reason sl military is different.
are you seriously comparing condition of civilians who live in ltte controlled areas to government controlled areas? (let us forget for a moment all those who used to live there who were chased away or killed for some reason or other )
as for what makes military different when it comes to conflict itself, military does not target civilians deliberately as a policy. tigers do. military investigates individuals who do. tigers honor them.

what differentiates terrorists from combatants that aren't terrorists?
that they do not target civilians intentionally as policy.

to the innocent civilan caught in the cross fire, isn't the sri lankan army just as much a terrorist as the LTTE?
in the crossfire? that would be a terrifying experience but that does not make army terrorist. all war is horrible. but do you make peace by appeasing a terrorist that intentionally targets innocents, that does not allow democracy , freedom and human rights to those under it , by handing over more ppl to it and making it more powerful ? isn't that worse? since war with such a regime is inevitable and appeasements have never worked as history has shown .
only way out is to effectively defeat and contain the ltte till it changes its way or self destructs, using military means as well as negotiations as opportunity offers.

terror is terror and those that inflict terror and use fear for their advantage are terrorists.
so who is using that ? be brave say it loud. but be prepared to back it up with evidence.

it's just subjective, depending on who keeps YOU happy.
it is not subjective. unless you want to disregard evidence and reality.

Keshi said...

Morquendi

**Sittingnut, speak when you're spoken to. At all other times sit quietly in the corner and stare at the wall.

That's the most discourteous statement that anyone can ever say to a blogowner. If u hadn't realise, this is Sittingnut's blog. He has every right to say what he wants to and to whoever who comments here. Considering that u r a person who don't value freedom of speech and one who doesn't seem to respect the blog owner in his own space, I dismiss ur case. Better let u rest b4 u collapse from a HBP.

I will come back to ur questions when I have time and when u can take up some more challenges healthily :)

Keshi.

Keshi said...

Morquendi, some answers to ur silly questions.


**Question 01
What does being a TV producer have anything to do with this argument?

alot. ppl who work for the media think they know alot more than the others. what they dun realise is that media is basically full of sh#t. most of the time.


**Question 02
What stops you from Googling'rules of war'?

Im not as shallow as u r just to google it. thats why.


**Question 03
Why don't you ask Janaka Perera about what the Sri Lankan Army does to civilians. He's an expert.

I dont have to ask anyone. I just know what I'm talking about cos I know alot of victims from both sides. Did u ask him btw?


**Question 04
Are you saying that if the LTTE kills civilians (which is does) that it's also OK for the military to kill civilians?

I didnt say it OK to do so - read properly. I said that they should EXPECT it. Expect nothing but violence from violence.


**Question 05
And who exactly is 'their people' to the LTTE? All Tamils? Some Tamils? Can you define this please. And where do you fit into the picture?

TAMILS ofcourse. Are you that dumb not to know who LTTE is fighting for? How do I come into this picture? I don't belong to a group of terrorists do I? And just cos Im half Tamil it doesnt mean I'd blindly value and support terrorism. Im not part of them and I don't want their freedom which is not freedom at all!


**Question 06
Can you please use English the way it's normally written? It really helps mature communication.

LOL ok. Im sorry to disapponint u there Mr.TV Producer.


**01
Do you think the LTTE can be defeated militarily?

NO
(isnt that obvious to you by now?)


**02
Is it possible to bring peace to Sri Lanka without engaging the LTTE in discussion?

YES
(u cant talk peace to a group pf mad dogs)


**03
Can the Tamil people of the North and East trust the Military and the Government of Sri Lanka to do what's best for them? (When we in the South can't trust them?)

NO
(it's not practical to expect that cos armies r also ppl with feelings tho they r in uniforms - and in such war conditions anything can happen)


Keshi.

Electra said...

sittingnut :

-prefer to convict thousands of brave innocent ppl in military without evidence just bc of some isolated actions of a few idiots ?- that's a fairly rich statement. a FEW idiots? true, perhaps, but then, the military unit of an entire state should not have have a few idiots in it. the pesalai case looks pretty deliberate, and if it was the work of the navy (which we all have reason to believe it was) that's downright wrong. i'm not condemning the army, they are doing their job, and doing it well, no doubt. of course they are brave, i'm not one to dispute this. all i'm saying is, who defines terrorism and who's to decide who's a terrorist? isn't george bush a terrorist? but do you think all those americans that voted for him, not to mention his own admininstration, views him as one? of course the LTTE are terrorists. but is someone whose family was taken away for no good reason by the sri lankan army going to view 'terrorism' as we define it?

are you saying the girls and boys in the LTTE aren't brave? that they aren't heroic? that they aren't fighting and dying for a worthy cause, atleast in their opinion?

our reality is one that's very different from the reality of those that are directly affected by the ongoing war. it's fairly simple for us to pull out our oxford dictionaries and google 'rules of war' and define what terrorism is and what it isn't. but this will always be a two sided coin, and we'll never be able to throw in into one frame. one persons terrorist will always be someone else's freedom fighter and defender.

keshi : i'd really like you to answer this one question morquendi asked, if not for him, then for the rest of us.

you used that phrase 'their people' very quickly and unhesitantly. it's a little disturbing, given that alot of us spend a fair bit of time making sure everything we're saying is more or less politcally correct and not prone to misquotation. who is THEIR people? who is OUR people?

finally, i did not intend on getting involved in this debate here. i was just voicing my concerns on how quick we are to glorify those that saves our asses (how brave! what heroes!) and condemn those that don't (pussy! terrorist!). in the end, it's all about us, isn't it?

Morquendi said...

Sittingnut, please stop trolling. After all this is your own blog and it's bad form to troll your own blog.

Morquendi said...

Keshi, more questions

Question 01
If like you said the LTTE cannot be defeated militarily, and if we cannot negotiate with them, what do we do? Would you care to explain what you believe the Government and the people of Sri Lanka should do now?

Question 02
So if the Tamils are the LTTE's people, then that would make half of you an LTTEer, and your mother a full member?

Question 03
Are you saying Tamils should "expect" to be killed by the Military because the LTTE kills civilians?

Question 04
So if the Tamils are the LTTE's people, then the Military only protects the Sinhala people? Yeah?

Question 05
How's the weather down under?

Morquendi said...

And as for heroism, if the Sri Lankan military had some heroes we would have suicide bombers :) But we don't, because no one in the Military is that dedicated to anything except their paycheck.

Keshi said...

Morquendi u r taking this argument to another level. I answered ur questions that related to this post. What the SL govt and people should be doing about the war is altogether another post. Did u lose the plot already? I knew it that u need a big break.

Go and come back all refreshed. And stop sounding so irritated...doesn't suit a TV Producer who wants to portray himself as quite matured :)


Keshi.

Electra said...

-portray himself as quite matured-
is that a...sentence?

i'm sorry, i really am snob, and i should just shut the hell up...but things that aren't articulated properly irritate me...and i find it impossible to read beyond the first sentence.

sittingnut said...

morquendi unable to stand his ground here and defend his position, arguments, or claims with any coherence(see his latest set of questions above for a good example of illogical ( almost random) conclusions he comes to without any explanation) , in his usual standard way ( common to some other peaceniks too btw) has resorted to, first his silly small minded insults( so far this time in his own name, but i expect him to get to anon comments and comments using other ppls names soon, as is his norm) , and second running away and posting distorted accounts of what ppl say in totally unrelated threads and posts. thinking ppl will be misled by that. basically acting like a nutter or a troll.
pathetic isn't it?

keshi:
thanks for forbearance. yes morquendi is a person who does not respect freedom of the speech. if his beloved big pussy is not praised he get into such a state that we have nothing else to do but to .... laugh at him and his bs comments.
was there ever another person like him who brought such instant disrepute on any cause he espouses. it is a good thing he is ashamed of the the military(see his comment about suicide bombers) and sri lanka, thinks so little of human rights, democracy ,freedom, and justice that he will throws them out to please big pussy and is a thoroughgoing peacenik.

electra:
a FEW idiots? true, perhaps, but then, the military unit of an entire state should not have have a few idiots in it.
:-)
it is bc it is the the military of the entire state that few idiots ( as well as few criminals) get in. it is inevitable. we are speaking of thousands of men and women here. do come down to earth.
anyway you failed to answer the question. do you convict the entire military bc few of them acted like idiots or criminals due to indiscipline? be claer pl.

the pesalai case looks pretty deliberate, and if it was the work of the navy (which we all have reason to believe it was) that's downright wrong.
let us assume that navy personnel did carry it out ( as you say it is very likely, this was never disputed by me) .
but 'work of the navy '? or a few idiots in it after an attack that killed some of them? are you saying it was deliberately ordered by higher up officers? that is the problem with your argument.
there is no evidence for deliberate targeting of civilians by the military as a policy. and given military has behaved with exemplary restraint even when attacked (daily) and most tamil civilians live under areas it control without harm, it is unlikely there is such a policy. same is borne out by the fact that military is conducting investigations on thees kind incidents. in fact as i pointed out in the main post our military even has a good disciplinary record compared to other military forces in conflict situations. incidents like persalai are few.

if you want to convict the military as opposed to few idiots and criminals who have got inside it, you have to produce the evidence, you have so far failed to .

btw can you point out where else i can see the radio report you heard and reported on in your previous comment. can you give details on those 'extensive research and investigation by impartial parties' pl.

who defines terrorism and who's to decide who's a terrorist?
a united nations panel defined a terrorist act as ,
"intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act.".

eu defines it as
"given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of: seriously intimidating a population; or unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act; or seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation."

a more complete defintion is
"Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperilled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought," (Schmid, 1988)."

what most definitions have in common is that terrorists attack civilians deliberately as a policy in order to achieve their ends whatever they may be. that is why there is no comparison of military with the ltte. military does not target civilians deliberately as a policy. ltte does.

isn't george bush a terrorist? but do you think all those americans that voted for him, not to mention his own admininstration, views him as one?
did i say i oppose bush or something like that ? imo i didn't.
anyway i don't think bush or his supporters are terrorists as they do not deliberately target civilians (see above.) if they do they are. it is deliberate targeting of civilians as policy that matters. not who is who.

but is someone whose family was taken away for no good reason by the sri lankan army going to view 'terrorism' as we define it?
a rational person will accept a definition like the above. whether a person who is not in a rational state is able to define terrorism is beside the point. if such a person tries to define it, it will not stand up to rational scrutiny.

are you saying the girls and boys in the LTTE aren't brave? that they aren't heroic? that they aren't fighting and dying for a worthy cause, atleast in their opinion?
personnel bravery is always commendable. but a person who thinks and helps deliberate targeting of innocents is a terrorist. they may claim they are not but then most murderers and other criminals cliam they are not doing anything bad either. guilt and innocence for any crime is determined by the evidence. this is true with terrorism too.

our reality is one that's very different from the reality of those that are directly affected by the ongoing war.
are you saying we are not directly affected by it? why? such generalizations do not advance your argument .

but this will always be a two sided coin, and we'll never be able to throw in into one frame.
not so . ppl may argue for defense or prosecution but verdict is determined by the evidence.
who deliberately targets civilians as a policy in sl? let the evidence speak. that is why i said this is subjective only if you disregard evidence.

one persons terrorist will always be someone else's freedom fighter and defender.
:-)a person can believe deliberate targeting of civilians as an act of a freedom fighter. a person may beleive earth is flat. but is that rational?

...how quick we are to glorify those that saves our asses (how brave! what heroes!) and condemn those that don't (pussy! terrorist!). in the end, it's all about us, isn't it?
no it is not about us if we are rational. we should glorify ( not just ironically) those who protect us and condemn those who kill innocents deliberately as a policy. that is rational and objective.

thanks for expressing your concerns. :-)

btw about articulating properly and first (or is it the last? )sentence etc., you probably know what they say about those in glass houses...

Keshi said...

~~Electra

**and i find it impossible to read beyond the first sentence.

Who asked you to? I wasn't talking to u anyways lol!

Get a grip English teacher - this is a blog, not a Grammar paper. yaaaaaaaaaawwwn!


Keshi.

Keshi said...

~~Electra


hey Electra I only read ur comments now. Sorry I missed ur Qn towards me in the midst of all the drama from Morquendi - r u 2 one person or related by any chance? :)


**you used that phrase 'their people' very quickly and unhesitantly. it's a little disturbing, given that alot of us spend a fair bit of time making sure everything we're saying is more or less politcally correct and not prone to misquotation. who is THEIR people? who is OUR people?


I didnt imply to discriminate anyone by saying 'THEIR' ppl. U ask yourself - just exactly who is LTTE fighting for? It's simple. What does LTTE stand for:

"Liberation Tigers of TAMIL Eelam"

That should answer you. No need to go that extra mile to make me look like a narrow-minded racist - u failed big time Electra :). Talk facts and don't pretend to be a peace-loving person when u don't even know what you're talking about. Do you think the LTTE will fight for the Sinhalese? How dumb are you?

Now patiently wait for a future comment by me to correct some Grammar mistakes and also to drag a senselss debate on it in which u fail miserably anyways. Good luck!


Keshi.