lib·er·tar·i·an
n.
1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
2. One who believes in free will.
Saturday, June 03, 2006
contrast
left, 12 year old selvarajah sthyam murdered by the ltte on may 20th, for refusing to join. right, a protest against eu's ltte ban held on may 29th in switzerland.
contrast.
images from the outside. (pics from tamilnet and mod.)
You’re just as bad as those LTTE supporters, if not worse. at least they actually care (if somewhat misguidedly) about innocent civilians in the N-E.
You, like the government, and the LTTE have belittled human suffering to its propaganda purposes. You don't care about the life of that poor boy, or the many other innocent people that have died in the past months, but have singled his photo out to add to your purpose of tarnishing the LTTE and their supporters.
that i posted a pic here that was all over the web? that i highlighted a death of a 12 year old that was reported in media? in other words are you objecting to a posting of a fact ? and contrasting it with blinkered vision of ltte supporters in the dispora?
may be you like me to post only happy pics that does not disturb you ? do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it ?
but given your comments elsewhere supporting ltte, i suppose your real objection is quite different.
uttara: where the world is leading ??? god alone knows .. i agree.
“do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it” My objection is not to you using gory/disturbing images, I object to your selective portrayal of human suffering. Many children have been killed in the past 6 months, (from the top of my head, I can think of a 16 year old boy in Jaffna in December, an underage recruit killed in a claymore mine, 3 children killed in air strikes, 1 child and 1 baby recently shot in their sleep, and this boy). As far as I have noticed, you’ve never commented on any of these (except the last). Why have you singled this boy out? Because, I presume, he was definitely killed by the LTTE and is therefore useful to you in pointing out the irony in the fact that many Tamils see the LTTE as their saviors.
Both side reduce civilian lives to their propaganda potential, and exploit the suffering of innocent people for propaganda. Just like ardent LTTE supporters, people like you lap up with the MoD puts out. You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t care about the welfare of Tamil civilians. Singling out the death of this boy (from a spiraling pattern human rights atrocities committed by many sides) to prove your point (sans empathy for the victim) reiterates this.
“but given your comments elsewhere supporting ltte, i suppose your real objection is quite different” I’ve noticed you have a tendency to brand people who criticise the government/army as being pro- LTTE. Please do quote my LTTE-supporting comments; I’d love to hear them. And if you equally condemned atrocities against all civilians (not just the ones perpetrated by the LTTE) my objections would not exist.
shimmi I object to your selective portrayal of human suffering all comments by anyone is selective. nobody can comment on everything. are you asking me not to comment at all bc i or anyone cannot comment about all? that would mean excluding all news,all editorials, all pics of suffering from war or other disasters.is that your view?
i was of course making a specific point about the blinkered view of ltte supporters in diaspora, of which you are one (in new zealand) , if you want to call that propaganda that is your right. visitors here will judge whether my point was valid or not, and whether i supported it with data.
if you are objecting to my using a pic of a murdered tamil boy to make my point and that shows my disregard and lack of empathy for victims say so clearly. but if so i hope you object to all pics of dead ppl in media. do you? where have yo objected to that before ? and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?
and as you say there is definite information about this. unlike most incidents.
people like you lap up with the MoD puts out. how may i ask did you come to that conclusion? bc i gave the pic credit to mod? the pic was all over the web and media, it was even posted as a comment here. i chose mod to link bc i linked other to tamilnet and bc unlike most news websites mod is not subject to link rotting(that is posting new postss in the same url) and does not require subscription like newspaper sites.
You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t care about the welfare of Tamil civilians. really ? where ? or are you equating tamils with ltte? as lot of peaceniks and warmongers do?
before you judge about my sympathies i suggest you read the posts here. and see whether i have not commented on other sufferings. read, to pick one at random, this one for instance.
I’ve noticed you have a tendency to brand people who criticise the government/army as being pro- LTTE. Please do quote my LTTE-supporting comments; I’d love to hear them. as i said quote me where is have accused anyone without foundation.
on the contrary it is you who have a tendency to brand ppl as anti tamil when they criticize ltte and jmp to ltte's defence. here is one in electra's blog It also really really annoys me how pretty much every LTTE crime against Singhalese is publicised, and a lot of crimes committed by the armed forces aren’t. The stories that do get into the media (i.e. the really really bad ones that they cannot hide) make people scream for proof – why are those same people not asking for proof every time the LTTE gets blamed for something? For example, some horrific things allegedly happened in Mannar (over dec/jan) that didn’t even make any media reports except Tamilnet (this may or may not be true, but for the sake of the “victims”, independent media should have made an attempt to find out). (btw mannar incident was covered by media .you of course chose to ignore that. )
here is another in indi.ca, in a post about mine that killed tourists in wilpattu. i can see 3 possible reasons for the mines: 1. the ltte planted them to target sla sneaking into LTTE territory 2.the sla planted them to target ltte sneaking out of LTTE territory 3. it’s an old landmine, maybe resurfaced after rain or soil erosion, or just missed from earlier mine-clearing activities (this does happen, in january i saw a newly found mine demarked on the side of the A9 in the middle of a main town). either way, it most probably wasn’t to target these poor people, or other tourists/civilians. but using the ltte as a scapegoat for attacks that they may not be responsible for doesn’t help the landmine situation in sri lanka. both parties lay mines, both are responsible for their repercussions. this in spite of the fact that evidence show it was a newly laid mine and on a road taken frequently by tourists. of course you find it unbelievable that ltte intentionally targets civilians. what does that say about you ?
do you need more? those were taken after a quick search in my rss feed. and i subscribe to only a few sl blogs.
southpaw: glad to see you here.
ashanthi: your mistake as well as shimmi's was to interpret this as a propaganda and not as what it is. a simple specific point about the blinkered view of ltte supporters in diaspora.
as usual you confuse tamil interests with ltte's .
s/nut has the right to show this picture on his blog - but if he wants to be a blogger or a person or most importantly a SRI LANKAN who is respected by others he needs to show the other pictures... why? does that make my point any more clear?
where are they - where are the pictures of children that your amry rapes in refugee camps? do you only care for children who the ltte abducts? the employer of choice in mannar after a few mass graves they dug? as usual you are talking of things you have no idea, and get your allegations confused.
don't talk about children s/nut - you are out of your depth here machan i suppose to you, unicef is out of its depth too?
it's the peaceactivists or the peaceniks as you snigger at who get ALL the reports from ALL the sides where are those reports, may i ask ? or do you mean dbs jeyaraj's posts?
s/nut - becarefull what you wish for why? has ltte banned that? but i don't obey them
Infact i say it took the EU quite some time to do this. When i visited ur country in sept2002, it was ceasefire between the LTTE and the government and by God everybody loved it and its absolutely unfortunate that they cudn't stay that way.
I read abt Selvarajah Sathyam and I felt so sad...terribly shaken that the LTTE has gone to such low levels only to prove their greed, animalistic nature and selfishness even more.
As long as Tamil people continue to believe that LTTE is their true and only representatives, they will continue to suffer the consequences of war and this country will keep deteriorating as a nation. Tamil people will have to stand up and voice against LTTE to end this war and bring a permanant solution to this, which I believe is an autonomous rule for the Tamil people in the North and East.
ashanthi: i do hate war, but that doesn't mean we have to let ltte carry on as they do now. that would be worse. i do not approve of peace bought by handing over innocents civilians to ltte to do as they wish. do you?
you got your alleged atrocities mixed up above, probably bc you have no idea what you are talking of.
You are living in a country where press is heavily censored really ? have you read newspapers here? where and what was censored? pl give details. some are biased according to politics of course, but every kind of political opinion has a paper. there are literally scores of papers.
have you read political columns? have you seen cartoons depicting buffalo and other politicos? i suggest you subscribe to several then you will know. do not depend exclusively on ltte propaganda.
as you may know there is a very public debate in the press about recent ban on 'da vici code' film. there is so much debate exactly bc there haven't been such bans recently. you have no idea about sl reality.
you don't get to read all the reports that Unicef puts out why cannot i read. are yo say that the website is blocked? really ? :-) can you point to the report that i missed? you have no idea about sl reality.
You also are absolutely refusing to come to terms with the harsh reality that is S/L & has been for decade rather it is you who is living in a fantasy sri lanka. you have no idea what sl is really like.
as your average peacenik would say, let's not let anyone else especially a supposed democratic govt carry on either aided by some disgraceful behaviour of it's army & police. as i said do advance the evidence and as you should know when there is a case, military has been prosecuted and convicted. ltte on the other hand rewards those who kill civilians.
And have I read this that and the other - yes I have. and you think they are censored ? if so either you are silly or biased. show me one news item that did not appear in sl media?
I don't need to point you in any direction, you can jolly well go look for them yourself. why run away when asked? admit the fact that you do not know what you speak of.
Tamils who live in refugee camps, who get harrased and shot at by the army & police on a daily basis, where? pl do point out .if you can. btw how do you explain the fact most refugees flee to government areas and not to ltte areas?
you have Tamil relatives and friends who give first hand accounts of torture and you've visited a few mass graves? Am I right? well i have actually. do you mean torture of tamils at the hand of military or the ltte? does that excuse the ltte? does that excuse the ltte getting what it wants? and it being allowed to carry on as now?
a long time ago, certain politicians decided to play that ugly race card. so? did anybody deny that? does that excuse ltte killing tamils(let alone all other races) ?
I'm not calling you racists when I say you are blind to the reality of Tamil people, but you certainly don't live in their world. did i say anything against the tamils? or deny their suffering? or are you saying all tamils support ltte? are you equating tamils with ltte?
The ltte will be long gone and probably replaced by some other or many other groups if you do not help change S/L for the better. how is ltte going to go away? that is the kind of wishful thinking that makes ppl distrust ppl(like peaceniks) who say such things.(they have to be either naive or ltte sympathizers).
The first thing you can do, is take a leaf out of the "peaceniks" book and walk amongst those who's reality you have been turning a blind eye towards for quite sometime. please detail your 'peacenik reality' and how any of that excuse the ltte.
it is the ltte that wants the war, it is the ltte that is not talking peace, it is ltte that is engaged in daily provocations. do you deny those facts? do you deny that ltte is a terrorist organization? do you believe that ltte speaks for all the tamils? do you believe we are going to have 'peace' by giving all that ltte asks?
pl answer clearly instead of running away from the questions.
ashanthi: you are sounding increasingly like dexter and morq. faced with rational arguments you cannot answer, you shout and make silly insults.
take yourself off Nittewa as an author you've been attacking Sanjay's mother for far too long now. I can't imagine you'd put up with your own mother being insulted in this fashion. It's low s/nut & you know it. pardon me? where have i made any reference to his mother? dare to explain ? it is you who is making the reference here now. so if anybody is doing anything low it is you.
how many tamil ppl who lived here for last 30 years have you met ? i meet hundreds
if you cannot substantiate what you said about unicef and my access to their reports, you were asking to be ridiculed on that score.
As for your anti-ltte stuff - well we reap what we sow. Violence begets violence unless we step away from it, we will indulge it. Go ahead & please yourself. so you do not condemn ltte? you think their violence is justified? do you think killing 12 year olds bc they do join is justified? as i said before be clear.
By not coming to terms with the fact that all Tamils are Tamils first who are treated very badly by Sinhales in some terrible ways - you can rant and rave about how all these other bloggers are supporting the ltte & how we've all got it wrong. "we've all"? who are the 'all'? who else besides you and morq among the bloggers approve of ltte and its violence ? care to point out? and as you know international community is quite capable of differentiating between tamils and ltte a thing yo are unble to do.
ME ... I'm not calling you racist when I say you are blind to the reality of Tamil people, but you certainly don't live in their world. YOU did i say anything against the tamils? or deny their suffering? DID YOU EVER SAY ANYTHING FOR THEM?? DID YOU EVER WRITE VOLUMES & VOLUMES ABOUT HOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU SIT IN COLOMBO & DO NOTHING (UNLIKE THOSE PATHETIC PEACNIKS) FOR THEM - DON'T MAKE ME SICK!!! what a lot of shouting! and if you want to be sick go be that somewhere else. morq was sick here quite enough. as for my commenting here about tamil suffering, read the posts here. and isn't the boy in the pic here tamil? isn't this post about tamil suffering at the hand of ltte? and how some tamil ltte supposrters in the diaspora turn a blind eye to it. are you one of them ?
so i sit in colombo? :-) how do you know that? where may i ask you sit? what right have you more than me, to talk on behalf of sri lankan tamils? that you call yourself a tamil? that you you approve of ltte which oppress them?
where do you think peaceniks sit ? in ltte territory ? :-)
YOU or are you saying all tamils support ltte? are you equating tamils with ltte? Oh please ... can't wait till you grow up & have kids & realise what a load of shit you are going to leave them... you are still unable to answer that basic questions . you are as i said above very like a warmonger in a foreign country( dextr). he too shouted when he was here.
i know what 'a load of shit' ltte is now. that is why all ppl here in sri lanka with international help will make them stop. if you want them to continue, you can have them in australia. not here.
when you pluck up enough courage - cut your ties with Morq & respond to my email...GOOOSE! i don't have any ties to morq.
as usual you don't know what you are talking about .
hmm.. I don't really want to get involved in your argument but can i add a couple points from my perspective:
a. media freedom in sri lanka - there is no explicit censorship, newspapers and reporters are free to write and publish what they want (esp. with the internet, it's quite hard to stop people doing that). The Sri Lankan media caters to one extreme to the other - but I think there are very big problems with press freedom in sri lanka: 1. no sri lankan media being has a level of credibility that is accepted by all sides & many look to foreign coverage of Sri Lanka as a credible source. 2. Foreign journalists do not have freedom of movement in Sri Lanka (access to certain N.E. areas began to be cut off in December for foreigners and now only people with MoD approval can travel). So, with many things that happen in the NE, there is no neutral party to report on it – people have to rely on either the government’s version or the other party, which are often quite different. 3. things that happen in the NE tend to be downplayed/ to the tune of the govt. by ‘southern’ media - maybe out of bias, maybe out of lack of credible information, maybe out of indifference. 4. With the amount of journalists killed in Sri Lanka, ‘freedom of the press’ is not something that Sri Lanka can gloat about.
b. Unicef Reports Unicef (and other UN agencies) do collect a lot of information, but they don’t make much of it public. Their public statements are either vague condemnations or self-promotion. The UN is a government auxiliary, and while I’m not going to go as far as using the word ‘appeasement’, they don’t do much that goes against them.
And sittingnut, I’m not a member of any diaspora (that word has connotations of leaving your home because of hardships/persecution & that is not why my family left sri lanka), I’m barely a tamil, & as for being an LTTE supporter; that would depend on your definition of what a LTTE supporter is (and yours seems to be pretty broad). Both of the comments that you quote do not support the LTTE but criticise something else (in these cases, media, people like you, & landmines). It’s interesting how you perceive that to be the same as being Pro- LTTE. What does that say about you ? ;)
As for the mannar comment: I recall stories about refugees being beaten with bike chains, the charred bodies of a family (including a 4 year old) found a burnt out, bloody house, fishermen being assaulted, small-scale rioting, and around 30,000 (from mannar, jaffna, trincomalee) people relocating to ltte-controlled areas. Was ALL of that reported in local papers?
My landmine comment: If you looked at the date, I actually made that comment before the army released extra details, but I still stand by it. Even if the army laid that mine, do you think that they would admit it? The majority of LTTE attacks have been via claymore mines, which are controlled and aimed at military targets, whereas mines maim and kill indiscriminately. I’m not saying that the LTTE is above using them or targeting civilians, but rather that the army isn’t above this either. Do you disagree with this?
It has become a reflex action to blame the LTTE for everything. The first thing that the govt./army did for pararajasingham’s murder, alaipaddy murders, uthayan murders etc. has been to blame the ltte. I personally think that the continual usage of the LTTE as a scapegoat is pathetic, and damages the credibility of the government forces. Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity?
I read some of your earlier stuff. It seems you have changed, or maybe you haven’t, it’s just the times have brought out a different side of you.
You seem to have a lot of anger and resentment against tamils, for eg. not voting in presidential elections, for supporting/tolerating the ltte.
Personally, I don’t know what it’s like to be a tamil in sri lanka. I’ve never been harassed, had my house searched or been scrutinised/interrogated at checkpoints purely for being a tamil. I’ve never had to fear the army, the police, the LTTE or any other group. I’ve never felt that I was unable to do anything or go anywhere in sri lanka because I was tamil. I’ve never been assaulted or seen friends or family assaulted for being tamil. I’ve never been displaced from my home or had to live in a refugee camp. I’m guessing you haven’t experienced any of this either.
Maybe you should discuss with the many Tamils in your social network what it feels like continually being treated as an enemy, & as to why many of their fellow tamils are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing. before you pass judgement on tamils, why not try & see it from a different point of view.
“and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?” no more right than you do in posting it. But using this boy’s pic to illustrate your point is still in poor taste to me.
ashanthi : really what do you know about morq and his family? why do you think all the peaceniks are his family ? are they ? :-) and why do you think all his family are peaceniks?
if you read you know i make specific accusations and questions reply to them if you can.
as for family killed, what evidence do you have that it was by the military? and if by the army not by rouges(who should be punished) in it? as you know i have always said if some idiots in army kills innocent ppl they should be punished. and gosl have prosecuted them if there is evidence.
difference is that tigers kill civilians as a policy and rewards the ppl who kill.
btw the family killing was fully reported in media and dbs jeyaraj's post on it with the pics were published. so much for your censorship.
why should i publish them ? i am not in the propaganda business.
you again fail to condemn the ltte.
and if army is killing tamils as you describe, why is it that great majority of tamils ppl always flee to government areas whenever there is war fears, away from ltte areas? do you know how many tamils live in ltte areas compared to government areas and how they live?
unicef report are available, why not read them yourself,about how children are recruited by ltte.
the boy's case was reported all over the media. why not ask his grandmother? name, place of residence all available, unlike allegations in peacenik reports that never ever gives specific data and are always based on unsubstantiated evidence. are you saying he was not killed by the ltte after all that? are you saying they do not recruit children? and you say you do not excuse ltte ? ha!
shimmi as for your thoughts on sl media:
do you know that tamilnet reports and dbs jeyaraj's posts are regularly posted in sl newspapers and other media? that tna mps regularly appear in tv talk shows and comment in newspapers? that whole interviews with tamilcelvem , bala and co. appear in news papers and on tv ? translated too. don't peaceniks get whole programs conducted by them? yes foreign correspondents do have to get permission to travel to ne from both mod and ltte? but are you saying they do not get permission from mod? are there not foreign correspondents in ne at the moment ? of course individual media outlets have their own povs but then so does all media everywhere. point out one case where sl public was not exposed to any newsstory at the same level as anybody else elsewhere?
as for gloating about freedom of the press which country has complete freedom of press ? name one? new zealand? :-)
- as for your being not tamil or part of diaspora , you may call yourself what you wish. fact is you are not in sl and you jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes those comments i quoted show that. and that is pro ltte. and your comments here show that you equate tamils with ltte.
anyway evidence is there anybody can read and judge for themselves. that is why i always quote.
btw as i said before quote me, where have i accused anyone without foundation. -
if you want to accuse unicef of bias you are free to do so. if you say your position is not affected by a desire to excuse ltte's child recruitment policies you are free to do so too. as i said and you borrowed, what does that say about you to any reader here? :-)
- ye,s manner incident was in the local papers, as is the recent one about the family of 4 killed after rape, and church grenade throwing incident, as they are in foreign press. with pics read before commenting. why not buy subscriptions to web versions and download sinhala fonts sets and read if you cannot get all the papers there? i assume you can read sinhala and tamil? and do write to the editors to make their content public for free and update their sites with better design so there is no link roting and standardized fonts. i have done so. more ppl write the better. -
in landmine incident you made the comment after the details came out. may be you did not read them. the road used was a one regularly used.why would army lay mines on a road that was used by tourists?
I’m not saying that the LTTE is above using them or targeting civilians, but rather that the army isn’t above this either. Do you disagree with this? yes . army has not targeted civilians as a policy. some in it have murdered civilians. and they have been investigated, and when there is evidence have been prosecuted. if you do not know, some army ppl are in jail. as they should be imo. ltte on the other hand do target civilians as a policy (and in some cases specifically to make army or mobs retaliate against tamils , thankfully unsuccessfully for the most part) . they reward those who that. that is the difference you do not get.
I personally think that the continual usage of the LTTE as a scapegoat is pathetic, i suppose you think all those attacks made since december were not by ltte ? they were made by ghost perhaps? :-) do you think recent bus attack was by ghosts too? after all government 'pathetically' blamed it on ltte didn't it? so ltte must be innocent. that seems to be your logic.
Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity? to ones they did not? why? as i said there were prosecutions of military about incidents where there is evidence. are there any incidents where there is actionable evidence and there was no prosecution? and some were convicted, some were not convicted.
You seem to have a lot of anger and resentment against tamils, for eg. not voting in presidential elections, for supporting/tolerating the ltte. as i said qoute me a single sentence i have said against tamils? or anyone else for that matter without foundation. i definitely do not equate tamils with ltte as you do. you take things i say against ltte as things i say against tamils. your mistake.
Maybe you should discuss with the many Tamils in your social network what it feels like continually being treated as an enemy, & as to why many of their fellow tamils are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing. before you pass judgement on tamils, why not try & see it from a different point of view if you read this blog as you say, you must have read my repeated comments on the fact the extremists equate tamils with ltte on both sides, and tamils suffer bc of this. you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed. do you mean all tamils support ltte as you do ? well they do not. that is where you are wrong. are you saying they obey ltte willingly? that is where you are wrong. they obey out of fear , and i have said they are cowardly. yes. ones with spine who stand up to ltte get killed. government should help them. and all tamils who recognize ltte for what it is should too. you of course excuse the ltte, don't assume all tamils are like you.
and you may have noticed what i said in november have come true now bc i was right about ltte. predictions based on facts come true.
“and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?” no more right than you do in posting it. logic is not your strong point is it? let me get this straight, according to your logic, you accuse me of objectionable conduct(in your opinion) by doing something similar?!
But using this boy’s pic to illustrate your point is still in poor taste to me. so now you object on grounds of poor taste. as i said above may be you like me to post only happy pics that does not disturb you ? do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it ? then you said My objection is not to you using gory/disturbing images changing your arguments and running away from reality is your problem. you seems to live in a fantasy world where ltte does no evil. when confronted with a very real pic that disturb it, you accuse me of poor taste . as you wish.
as you may have seen once in while i do post pics of film actors and actresses. i suppose you like them.
Is this the same Ashanthi of the TRO episode ??? Sittingnut you can safely and completely ignore that chick's comments as she is most of the time far,far,far away from the truth. Her post on TRO was thought provoking and I totally fell for it but gheeeesh we all know how that one went. This chick has far too much time on her hands and some silly thoughts that she augments with long words. One big fart.Do you think she would end up marrying Pada show. Would make a lovely couple.
“as for gloating about freedom of the press which country has complete freedom of press ? name one? new zealand? :-)” I’m not sure what complete press freedom would be, but according to reporters sans frontières, a bunch of European countries are ranked as the best. New Zealand is the highest non-European county at 12. That sure beats Sri Lanka’s dismal placing at 115. (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15331)
“fact is you are not in sl and you jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes” Well, with so many blogs around commenting on the bus bomb, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find one since I “jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes” Why not even find a comment where I criticised their banning, or maybe blame for claymore attacks, or even against aerial strikes. Or will you continue to regurgitate these 2 comments as the sole base to your argument that I’m pro-ltte.
As for me not being is sl, neither is Keshi, you still take her opinions seriously (even if no one else does). Just because I’m overseas now, it doesn’t mean that i’m completely clueless to the ‘ground-realities’ of sri lanka. I was living and working there up until 3 months ago.
“those comments i quoted show that. and that is pro ltte. and your comments here show that you equate tamils with ltte.?” I don’t think my comments do equate tamils with ltte (I know that I certainly don’t in real life). I think it’s just that you find it easier to brand people as pro-ltte that don’t share the same views on terrorism or the sri lankan armed forces/govt. as you do. A bit immature of you don’t you think? For example you constantly say jeyaraj is pro-ltte, when any idiot would be able to tell that he is not (for eg. Check out his articles on prof. hoole fleeing sri lanka or what he thinks of the Canada ban). But I guess using your logic… he’s Tamil AND doesn’t like the government so therefore he must be pro-ltte. Another example in pinkini in another one of her threads, not only did you accuse her of being pro-ltte, but all her arguments/criticisms were too ‘vague’ for you liking.
“if you want to accuse unicef of bias you are free to do so. if you say your position is not affected by a desire to excuse ltte's child recruitment policies you are free to do so too. as i said and you borrowed, what does that say about you to any reader here? :-)?” And again, equating any ‘criticism’ of UNICEF as a desire to excuse ltte’s child recruitment is not very mature. Actually, the last unicef statement about child recruitment was criticised by many as being too weak. I never accused the UN of bias, they are a government auxiliary and have to work with the government, so they don’t do much to piss them off. It’s not really seen as bias, because the UN actively works in partnership with the govt. they don’t go against them unless they see it as absolutely necessary (as the UN does in every country). As for UNICEF’s child recruitment policies, I think that they spearheaded an excellent project, Children Affected by War, which targeted underage recruits, children that were vulnerable to joining the LTTE and poverty affected children, in partnership with around 10 NGOs/IGOs, GoSL, and LTTE. I think it was a very proactive way to make a positive change to the lives of children in the N.E., more than condemning statements ever could.
“in landmine incident you made the comment after the details came out. may be you did not read them. the road used was a one regularly used.why would army lay mines on a road that was used by tourists?” Well, they could have done it to target ltte, or worst case, blame the ltte. However, i’m not saying that the army did it, because I don’t have any evidence that they did or didn’t.
“army has not targeted civilians as a policy. some in it have murdered civilians. and they have been investigated, and when there is evidence have been prosecuted. if you do not know, some army ppl are in jail. as they should be imo.” Yes, I do know that there have been a few cases that have gone to trial, and fewer that haven’t resulted in acquittals. But, you’d have a hard time telling people that survived their villages being carpet bombed in 90s or those that have had friends and family ‘disappear’ from checkpoints that the army doesn’t target civilians, or that justice will be delivered to Tamils (or Muslims or anyone).
“i suppose you think all those attacks made since december were not by ltte ? they were made by ghost perhaps? :-) do you think recent bus attack was by ghosts too? after all government 'pathetically' blamed it on ltte didn't it? so ltte must be innocent. that seems to be your logic.” I’m not (and I never have) denying that the LTTE does many acts of terrorism. Like I said, the first reaction of things that the armed forces were blatantly guilty of, they blamed the ltte. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Why I should I believe the army that the LTTE did something without evidence when they lie as much as the LTTE do.
Also, paramilitary do have a purpose to in agitating both sides towards war. More than one group have motives for many of the attacks that happen. Without evidence, you may, but I can’t know for certain who’s responsible.
“Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity? to ones they did not? why?” How about the recent ones in Kayts? “as i said there were prosecutions of military about incidents where there is evidence. are there any incidents where there is actionable evidence and there was no prosecution? and some were convicted, some were not convicted.” Comparable to the amount of crimes, not many have been convicted (or even tried). How come incidents perpetrated by suspected armed forces need concrete evidence, but ones by the LTTE do not?
“i definitely do not equate tamils with ltte as you do. you take things i say against ltte as things i say against tamils. your mistake.” Well for starters, you think that they are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing ( I don’t, I was just reflecting your sentiments – from this post). Personally, I don’t like to pass judgement on them for the decisions that they make, because I’ve never been in their shoes. If I was, I doubt I (or you for that matter) would have acted any differently. You may think that tamil lives are worth losing for your right to have UNP in power, but not everyone believes that democracy is worth dying over.
“you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed.’ Like I said, I was just reflecting your opinions. “do you mean all tamils support ltte as you do ? well they do not. that is where you are wrong.” I think that Tamil opinion can not be boxed in those who do and those who don’t support the LTTE. The reality is much more complicated as that. As for me supporting the LTTE, just because I don’t like what the government and armed forces do, it doensn’t mean I support/condone the LTTE. Try and understand this, because there are many many tamils in the same position as I am. “are you saying they obey ltte willingly? that is where you are wrong. they obey out of fear , and i have said they are cowardly.” Some do obey willingly. Many do out of fear. And like I said earlier, it’s easy to call people cowardly when you haven’t been in their shoes.
“ones with spine who stand up to ltte get killed. government should help them. and all tamils who recognize ltte for what it is should too. But the government doesn’t. And in this current climate, there aren’t many better options for Tamils who recognise what the LTTE is. you of course excuse the ltte, don't assume all tamils are like you.” Like I said, I’m barely a tamil by the majority of definitions of what a tamil is, so why would I assume that all tamils are like me?
“as you may have seen once in while i do post pics of film actors and actresses. i suppose you like them.” Actually, I haven’t seen any. Depending on who they are, I probably would like them though.
As for my thoughts of your usage of this picture, I will write a post about my objections later (right now I have an essay to finish), and I’ll reply to the media comments later.
shimmi expression 'gloating' over press freedom was taken from your earlier comment. i did not say we gloat over it. it is you who implied we gloat . i said nobody has the right to gloat . I’m not sure what complete press freedom would be, but according to reporters sans frontières, a bunch of European countries are ranked as the best. New Zealand is the highest non-European county at 12. That sure beats Sri Lanka’s dismal placing at 115. so ? what is your point ? you do not contradict anything i said. what does the fact that we have sightly less freedom as defined by rsf than india(106) and higher one than singapore (140), mexico (135) and some thing called 'united states of america in iraq' lower down (137) prove. btw wasn't new zealand part (very small ) of 'coalition of the willing' in iraq originally ? so where was new zealand in iraq? too small for the report? )
on the other hand you have failed to answer the questions i posed regarding media here. including the main one point out one case where sl public was not exposed to any newsstory at the same level as anybody else elsewhere?
so instead of running away from the specific questions posed by quoting reports that does not prove anything, why not answer them?
Or will you continue to regurgitate these 2 comments as the sole base to your argument that I’m pro-ltte. you asked for comments i gave them. and those two prove my point, you did jump to ltte's defence at the slightest criticism. you are doing it here by confusing ltte with tamils. as i said above ppl can read them and judge for themselves. i am not in the mood to go through archives of other ppl's blogs at the moment in order to prove a point that is adequately supported with evidence. i grant that you have been silent in the blogosphere recently compared with your earlier self esp after this post. btw the fact that you did not leave any comments recently just proves you did not leave comments recently, not that you approve the ltte ban, attribute blame for claymore mines to ltte or do not mind aerial attacks or that you hold the opposite views. while your comments earlier as i said proves you are pro ltte.
btw in case you forget, quote me, where have i accused anyone without foundation.
As for me not being is sl, neither is Keshi, you still take her opinions seriously (even if no one else does). question was whether you are part of diaspora that support ltte like the ones in pic, not whether anybody take your opinion seriously . i am replying to you, that should tell you something. you said you weren't part of diaspora, i said you may call yourself what you wish, but that you are as a fact in new zealand. those facts still remain true.
as for taking keshi seriously, why shouldn't i? especially if what she says is valid. if you do not agree with her you are free to argue your case. which you fail to do. as for others not taking her seriously that is your personal opinion. are you jealous or something ? :-) or may be you are angry that she criticize ltte? is that it ?
Just because I’m overseas now, it doesn’t mean that i’m completely clueless to the ‘ground-realities’ of sri lanka. I was living and working there up until 3 months ago. so ? as i said question was whether you like those in diaspora who support ltte (and as in pic) subscribe to a bickered view of ltte in spite of the facts on the ground such as the boys being killed for not joining. i think your comments here so far answer that quite clearly.
I think it’s just that you find it easier to brand people as pro-ltte that don’t share the same views on terrorism or the sri lankan armed forces/govt. as you do. no , you are mistaken . to help you out i will list those i consider pro ltte. i consider ppl who excuse ltte terrorism as justified and committed on behalf of tamils as pro ltte. i consider those who think ltte is not terrorist as pro ltte, i consider ppl who believe ltte stands and fights for tamils as pro ltte, i consider ppl who take a blinkered view of ltte ad igore its crimes as those in pic as pro ltte. i consider ppl who defend ltte as pro ltte. i consider ppl who think any crime committed by some in military justifies ltte terrorism as pro ltte (crimes committed by military should be investigated and criminals punished but that does not justify ltte) if you think any of the above should not be considered pro ltte please explain why. it is clear from your comments here alone that you fall into several of those categories.
A bit immature of you don’t you think? that i consider above as pro-ltte? not at all imo.
For example you constantly say jeyaraj is pro-ltte, when any idiot would be able to tell that he is not (for eg. Check out his articles on prof. hoole fleeing sri lanka or what he thinks of the Canada ban). But I guess using your logic… he’s Tamil AND doesn’t like the government so therefore he must be pro-ltte. does he fall into above? yes he does. he believes ltte fights for tamils and is a legitimate representative he excuses their crimes. he gives them advice on how to conduct war and propaganda, he gives ltte version of events when it comes to an attack and try to lesson their horror for propaganda purposes. that he was almost killed by the ltte ( a fact you seem not to know) or that he speaks on behalf of several ltte victims (whether for personal reasons or bc he think such crimes hurt the ltte cause) does not change that fact. even tamilnet sometimes report on ltte crimes and then spins them. that is what dbs jeyaraj does. some tna mps personally oppose ltte but they speak on behalf of it. dbs jayaraj is in the same place. to criticize occasionally and even to to call ltte is bad while justifying it and admitting its legitimacy is pro ltte imo.
Another example in pinkini in another one of her threads, not only did you accuse her of being pro-ltte, but all her arguments/criticisms were too ‘vague’ for you liking. i have dealt with that in detail there. he/she fals within above categories. he/she justifies and excuses ltte crimes by saying military commits crimes too. and she/he is vague when questioned about her/his stand about ltte. btw why don't you answer the questions i posed there as well.
as i said quote me if i called anyone pro ltte bc he or she is tamil.
And again, equating any ‘criticism’ of UNICEF as a desire to excuse ltte’s child recruitment is not very mature. as i said, you are free to say unicef is biased and toady towards governments (and that is what you implied ) . you are free to think that things like the above pic does not happen and ppl who post them have bad taste. you are free to think that while ltte handover some children to unicef they do not recruit others. you are free to think that not criticizing ltte child recruitment while helping some children will solve the problem. you are free to ignore reality . and as i said readers are free to think what kind of person you are .
Well, they could have done it to target ltte, or worst case, blame the ltte. However, i’m not saying that the army did it, because I don’t have any evidence that they did or didn’t. target the ltte in a park that is frequented by tourists on a road frequently used by them? and you think army deliberately targets civilians to blame ltte ? as i said you can claim you do not excuse ltte while doing that. but let readers judge.
But, you’d have a hard time telling people that survived their villages being carpet bombed in 90s or those that have had friends and family ‘disappear’ from checkpoints that the army doesn’t target civilians, or that justice will be delivered to Tamils (or Muslims or anyone). well that is army's pr problem. while ppl who have lost friends and relatives due to so called 'collateral damage' and some idiot going beserk( as happens in all conflicts), will understandably entertain irrational theories, question is do you as a rational person believe that military deliberately targets civilians? you have not put forward any evidence to say that military deliberately target civilians as ltte does.
Like I said, the first reaction of things that the armed forces were blatantly guilty of, they blamed the ltte. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Why I should I believe the army that the LTTE did something without evidence when they lie as much as the LTTE do. you are right not to believe everything army says nobody does, it like its counterparts everywhere try to defend its own, but unlike ltte it submits to investigations and as you admit some military are in prison. but you go further than not believing the army in your desire to excuse the ltte you imply that army deliberately targets civilians on no evidence at all.
Also, paramilitary do have a purpose to in agitating both sides towards war. More than one group have motives for many of the attacks that happen. Without evidence, you may, but I can’t know for certain who’s responsible. you are free to believe that and blame it all on 'paramilitaries' . do you know who else does that regularly ? ltte.
How about the recent ones in Kayts? is there not a investigation. ? are you telling me that they have convicted those responsible and that government did not accept responsibility? given that suspicion fell on some military and epdb government did what it is supposed to do, it initiated an investigation . it cannot accept responsibility before the investigation is finished. reasonable suspicions on the other hand are free to be expressed and i and others think some in military are responsible. and when buffalo says it will be investigated and those responsible punished (which is all he can do or say)does he mean ltte ?
Comparable to the amount of crimes, not many have been convicted (or even tried). How come incidents perpetrated by suspected armed forces need concrete evidence, but ones by the LTTE do not? bc armed forces work within the law and if they breach the law they should be convicted according to law . are you telling that government should convict without evidence ? if you have evidence for the crimes please come forward and give evidence so we may have more cases and more convictions. and yes ppl will get away with crimes if evidence is lacking. but ppl are free to express their suspicions about those responsible. as for ltte you may believe that others (army bent on blaming ltte, paramilitaries etc) use suicide bombers , that others deliberately target civilians, etc but so far only ltte has done that and convicted of them before. question is whether you are being reasonable or whether you have reasonable grounds for suspecting the army, paramilitaries etc. that is why i always say let readers judge whether a person who insist on evidence about wilpattu land mine attack and then ignore the evidence available is acting rationally or from other motives.
Well for starters, you think that they are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing ( I don’t, I was just reflecting your sentiments – from this post). cowards yes. brainwashing ? where did i say that ? as i say quote me .
Personally, I don’t like to pass judgement on them for the decisions that they make, because I’ve never been in their shoes. If I was, I doubt I (or you for that matter) would have acted any differently. You may think that tamil lives are worth losing for your right to have UNP in power, but not everyone believes that democracy is worth dying over. you say you wont judge them, not being in their shoes etc. and then you do exactly that and assume the right to speak for them. i agree they did not think democracy is not worth dying for and i say they are cowards bc of that.(shortsighted ones too as i said then) i will say so again.
“you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed.’ Like I said, I was just reflecting your opinions. like i said quote me about brainwashing . i said they acted like cowards not zoombies
I think that Tamil opinion can not be boxed in those who do and those who don’t support the LTTE. The reality is much more complicated as that. As for me supporting the LTTE, just because I don’t like what the government and armed forces do, it doensn’t mean I support/condone the LTTE. Try and understand this, because there are many many tamils in the same position as I am. you are right that opinion in general cannot be boxed. but when it comes to a specific thing the like support for ltte one has only two options and ppl can be boxed; either one support it or do not.. there is no middle course in such questions. either you approve what is in one picture or what is in the other. you cannot say you do not want to see it or that one is free to ignore it bc it is disgusting. facts are facts i say tamils do not support ltte . they obey it out of fear. where do you stand? but your comment as i have shown above gives you away.
Some do obey willingly. Many do out of fear. And like I said earlier, it’s easy to call people cowardly when you haven’t been in their shoes. ppl who live in fear are cowards. there is no moral judgment in it, it is a fact, almost a definition. you said exactly what i said. and in contradiction of rest of your comment. and theirs cowardice let the boy above down and let him be killed while they looked the other way due to fear,while the ppl in other pic murdered him or as good as. now do you accept that to remove the fear we have to defeat or contain ltte ? do you accept that may result in death of innocents?
Like I said, I’m barely a tamil by the majority of definitions of what a tamil is, so why would I assume that all tamils are like me? it doesn't matter you are tamil or sinhalese or whatever (most of the peaceniks are sinhalese after all and they too assume ltte is justified like you ) . you excused the ltte and justified their actions bc you assumed tamils support ltte. that is what matters.
As for my thoughts of your usage of this picture, I will write a post about my objections later (right now I have an essay to finish), and I’ll reply to the media comments later. looking forward to seeing the post and be sure to link the it here. and good luck with the essay, if you want to check for unwarranted assumptions, errors on logic, lack of evidence etc. in it, i will be glad to help. :-)
18 comments:
You’re just as bad as those LTTE supporters, if not worse. at least they actually care (if somewhat misguidedly) about innocent civilians in the N-E.
You, like the government, and the LTTE have belittled human suffering to its propaganda purposes. You don't care about the life of that poor boy, or the many other innocent people that have died in the past months, but have singled his photo out to add to your purpose of tarnishing the LTTE and their supporters.
you make me sick.
shheeeeezzzzzzzz...
where the world is leading ??? god alone knows ..
shimmi:
what exactly is it that you object to ?
that i posted a pic here that was all over the web? that i highlighted a death of a 12 year old that was reported in media? in other words are you objecting to a posting of a fact ?
and contrasting it with blinkered vision of ltte supporters in the dispora?
may be you like me to post only happy pics that does not disturb you ?
do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it ?
but given your comments elsewhere supporting ltte, i suppose your real objection is quite different.
uttara:
where the world is leading ??? god alone knows ..
i agree.
“do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it”
My objection is not to you using gory/disturbing images, I object to your selective portrayal of human suffering. Many children have been killed in the past 6 months, (from the top of my head, I can think of a 16 year old boy in Jaffna in December, an underage recruit killed in a claymore mine, 3 children killed in air strikes, 1 child and 1 baby recently shot in their sleep, and this boy). As far as I have noticed, you’ve never commented on any of these (except the last). Why have you singled this boy out? Because, I presume, he was definitely killed by the LTTE and is therefore useful to you in pointing out the irony in the fact that many Tamils see the LTTE as their saviors.
Both side reduce civilian lives to their propaganda potential, and exploit the suffering of innocent people for propaganda. Just like ardent LTTE supporters, people like you lap up with the MoD puts out. You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t care about the welfare of Tamil civilians. Singling out the death of this boy (from a spiraling pattern human rights atrocities committed by many sides) to prove your point (sans empathy for the victim) reiterates this.
“but given your comments elsewhere supporting ltte, i suppose your real objection is quite different”
I’ve noticed you have a tendency to brand people who criticise the government/army as being pro- LTTE. Please do quote my LTTE-supporting comments; I’d love to hear them. And if you equally condemned atrocities against all civilians (not just the ones perpetrated by the LTTE) my objections would not exist.
Absolutely contrast....
shimmi
I object to your selective portrayal of human suffering
all comments by anyone is selective. nobody can comment on everything. are you asking me not to comment at all bc i or anyone cannot comment about all?
that would mean excluding all news,all editorials, all pics of suffering from war or other disasters.is that your view?
i was of course making a specific point about the blinkered view of ltte supporters in diaspora, of which you are one (in new zealand) , if you want to call that propaganda that is your right. visitors here will judge whether my point was valid or not, and whether i supported it with data.
if you are objecting to my using a pic of a murdered tamil boy to make my point and that shows my disregard and lack of empathy for victims say so clearly. but if so i hope you object to all pics of dead ppl in media. do you? where have yo objected to that before ?
and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?
and as you say there is definite information about this. unlike most incidents.
people like you lap up with the MoD puts out.
how may i ask did you come to that conclusion? bc i gave the pic credit to mod? the pic was all over the web and media, it was even posted as a comment here. i chose mod to link bc i linked other to tamilnet and bc unlike most news websites mod is not subject to link rotting(that is posting new postss in the same url) and does not require subscription like newspaper sites.
You’ve made it quite clear that you don’t care about the welfare of Tamil civilians.
really ? where ?
or are you equating tamils with ltte? as lot of peaceniks and warmongers do?
before you judge about my sympathies i suggest you read the posts here. and see whether i have not commented on other sufferings. read, to pick one at random, this one for instance.
I’ve noticed you have a tendency to brand people who criticise the government/army as being pro- LTTE. Please do quote my LTTE-supporting comments; I’d love to hear them.
as i said quote me where is have accused anyone without foundation.
on the contrary it is you who have a tendency to brand ppl as anti tamil when they criticize ltte and jmp to ltte's defence.
here is one in electra's blog
It also really really annoys me how pretty much every LTTE crime against Singhalese is publicised, and a lot of crimes committed by the armed forces aren’t. The stories that do get into the media (i.e. the really really bad ones that they cannot hide) make people scream for proof – why are those same people not asking for proof every time the LTTE gets blamed for something? For example, some horrific things allegedly happened in Mannar (over dec/jan) that didn’t even make any media reports except Tamilnet (this may or may not be true, but for the sake of the “victims”, independent media should have made an attempt to find out).
(btw mannar incident was covered by media .you of course chose to ignore that. )
here is another in indi.ca, in a post about mine that killed tourists in wilpattu.
i can see 3 possible reasons for the mines:
1. the ltte planted them to target sla sneaking into LTTE territory
2.the sla planted them to target ltte sneaking out of LTTE territory
3. it’s an old landmine, maybe resurfaced after rain or soil erosion, or just missed from earlier mine-clearing activities (this does happen, in january i saw a newly found mine demarked on the side of the A9 in the middle of a main town).
either way, it most probably wasn’t to target these poor people, or other tourists/civilians. but using the ltte as a scapegoat for attacks that they may not be responsible for doesn’t help the landmine situation in sri lanka. both parties lay mines, both are responsible for their repercussions.
this in spite of the fact that evidence show it was a newly laid mine and on a road taken frequently by tourists. of course you find it unbelievable that ltte intentionally targets civilians. what does that say about you ?
do you need more? those were taken after a quick search in my rss feed. and i subscribe to only a few sl blogs.
southpaw:
glad to see you here.
ashanthi:
your mistake as well as shimmi's was to interpret this as a propaganda and not as what it is. a simple specific point about the blinkered view of ltte supporters in diaspora.
as usual you confuse tamil interests with ltte's .
s/nut has the right to show this picture on his blog - but if he wants to be a blogger or a person or most importantly a SRI LANKAN who is respected by others he needs to show the other pictures...
why? does that make my point any more clear?
where are they - where are the pictures of children that your amry rapes in refugee camps? do you only care for children who the ltte abducts? the employer of choice in mannar after a few mass graves they dug?
as usual you are talking of things you have no idea, and get your allegations confused.
don't talk about children s/nut - you are out of your depth here machan
i suppose to you, unicef is out of its depth too?
it's the peaceactivists or the peaceniks as you snigger at who get ALL the reports from ALL the sides
where are those reports, may i ask ? or do you mean dbs jeyaraj's posts?
s/nut - becarefull what you wish for
why? has ltte banned that? but i don't obey them
Infact i say it took the EU quite some time to do this. When i visited ur country in sept2002, it was ceasefire between the LTTE and the government and by God everybody loved it and its absolutely unfortunate that they cudn't stay that way.
I read abt Selvarajah Sathyam and I felt so sad...terribly shaken that the LTTE has gone to such low levels only to prove their greed, animalistic nature and selfishness even more.
BOYCOTT LTTE!
Keshi.
As long as Tamil people continue to believe that LTTE is their true and only representatives, they will continue to suffer the consequences of war and this country will keep deteriorating as a nation. Tamil people will have to stand up and voice against LTTE to end this war and bring a permanant solution to this, which I believe is an autonomous rule for the Tamil people in the North and East.
southpaw
yes, it was unfortunate it could not stay that way .
keshi:
BOYCOTT LTTE!
yes ! only everyone has to do that to be successful. that is why more other countries ban it the better.
niroshan
you are absolutely right . i agree with you completely.
ashanthi:
i do hate war, but that doesn't mean we have to let ltte carry on as they do now. that would be worse.
i do not approve of peace bought by handing over innocents civilians to ltte to do as they wish.
do you?
you got your alleged atrocities mixed up above, probably bc you have no idea what you are talking of.
You are living in a country where press is heavily censored
really ? have you read newspapers here? where and what was censored? pl give details.
some are biased according to politics of course, but every kind of political opinion has a paper. there are literally scores of papers.
have you read political columns? have you seen cartoons depicting buffalo and other politicos? i suggest you subscribe to several then you will know. do not depend exclusively on ltte propaganda.
as you may know there is a very public debate in the press about recent ban on 'da vici code' film. there is so much debate exactly bc there haven't been such bans recently.
you have no idea about sl reality.
you don't get to read all the reports that Unicef puts out
why cannot i read. are yo say that the website is blocked? really ? :-)
can you point to the report that i missed?
you have no idea about sl reality.
You also are absolutely refusing to come to terms with the harsh reality that is S/L & has been for decade
rather it is you who is living in a fantasy sri lanka. you have no idea what sl is really like.
as your average peacenik would say, let's not let anyone else especially a supposed democratic govt carry on either aided by some disgraceful behaviour of it's army & police.
as i said do advance the evidence and as you should know when there is a case, military has been prosecuted and convicted. ltte on the other hand rewards those who kill civilians.
And have I read this that and the other - yes I have.
and you think they are censored ? if so either you are silly or biased.
show me one news item that did not appear in sl media?
I don't need to point you in any direction, you can jolly well go look for them yourself.
why run away when asked? admit the fact that you do not know what you speak of.
Tamils who live in refugee camps, who get harrased and shot at by the army & police on a daily basis,
where? pl do point out .if you can.
btw how do you explain the fact most refugees flee to government areas and not to ltte areas?
you have Tamil relatives and friends who give first hand accounts of torture and you've visited a few mass graves? Am I right?
well i have actually. do you mean torture of tamils at the hand of military or the ltte?
does that excuse the ltte? does that excuse the ltte getting what it wants? and it being allowed to carry on as now?
a long time ago, certain politicians decided to play that ugly race card.
so? did anybody deny that?
does that excuse ltte killing tamils(let alone all other races) ?
I'm not calling you racists when I say you are blind to the reality of Tamil people, but you certainly don't live in their world.
did i say anything against the tamils? or deny their suffering?
or are you saying all tamils support ltte? are you equating tamils with ltte?
The ltte will be long gone and probably replaced by some other or many other groups if you do not help change S/L for the better.
how is ltte going to go away?
that is the kind of wishful thinking that makes ppl distrust ppl(like peaceniks) who say such things.(they have to be either naive or ltte sympathizers).
The first thing you can do, is take a leaf out of the "peaceniks" book and walk amongst those who's reality you have been turning a blind eye towards for quite sometime.
please detail your 'peacenik reality' and how any of that excuse the ltte.
it is the ltte that wants the war, it is the ltte that is not talking peace, it is ltte that is engaged in daily provocations. do you deny those facts?
do you deny that ltte is a terrorist organization?
do you believe that ltte speaks for all the tamils?
do you believe we are going to have 'peace' by giving all that ltte asks?
pl answer clearly instead of running away from the questions.
you have no idea what sl reality is like.
ashanthi:
you are sounding increasingly like dexter and morq.
faced with rational arguments you cannot answer, you shout and make silly insults.
take yourself off Nittewa as an author you've been attacking Sanjay's mother for far too long now. I can't imagine you'd put up with your own mother being insulted in this fashion. It's low s/nut & you know it.
pardon me?
where have i made any reference to his mother? dare to explain ? it is you who is making the reference here now. so if anybody is doing anything low it is you.
how many tamil ppl who lived here for last 30 years have you met ? i meet hundreds
if you cannot substantiate what you said about unicef and my access to their reports, you were asking to be ridiculed on that score.
As for your anti-ltte stuff - well we reap what we sow. Violence begets violence unless we step away from it, we will indulge it. Go ahead & please yourself.
so you do not condemn ltte? you think their violence is justified? do you think killing 12 year olds bc they do join is justified? as i said before be clear.
By not coming to terms with the fact that all Tamils are Tamils first who are treated very badly by Sinhales in some terrible ways - you can rant and rave about how all these other bloggers are supporting the ltte & how we've all got it wrong.
"we've all"?
who are the 'all'? who else besides you and morq among the bloggers approve of ltte and its violence ? care to point out?
and as you know international community is quite capable of differentiating between tamils and ltte a thing yo are unble to do.
ME ...
I'm not calling you racist when I say you are blind to the reality of Tamil people, but you certainly don't live in their world.
YOU
did i say anything against the tamils? or deny their suffering?
DID YOU EVER SAY ANYTHING FOR THEM??
DID YOU EVER WRITE VOLUMES & VOLUMES ABOUT HOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU SIT IN COLOMBO & DO NOTHING (UNLIKE THOSE PATHETIC PEACNIKS) FOR THEM - DON'T MAKE ME SICK!!!
what a lot of shouting! and if you want to be sick go be that somewhere else. morq was sick here quite enough.
as for my commenting here about tamil suffering, read the posts here.
and isn't the boy in the pic here tamil? isn't this post about tamil suffering at the hand of ltte? and how some tamil ltte supposrters in the diaspora turn a blind eye to it. are you one of them ?
so i sit in colombo? :-) how do you know that?
where may i ask you sit? what right have you more than me, to talk on behalf of sri lankan tamils? that you call yourself a tamil? that you you approve of ltte which oppress them?
where do you think peaceniks sit ? in ltte territory ? :-)
YOU
or are you saying all tamils support ltte? are you equating tamils with ltte?
Oh please ... can't wait till you grow up & have kids & realise what a load of shit you are going to leave them...
you are still unable to answer that basic questions . you are as i said above very like a warmonger in a foreign country( dextr). he too shouted when he was here.
i know what 'a load of shit' ltte is now. that is why all ppl here in sri lanka with international help will make them stop. if you want them to continue, you can have them in australia. not here.
when you pluck up enough courage - cut your ties with Morq & respond to my email...GOOOSE!
i don't have any ties to morq.
as usual you don't know what you are talking about .
hmm.. I don't really want to get involved in your argument but can i add a couple points from my perspective:
a. media freedom in sri lanka - there is no explicit censorship, newspapers and reporters are free to write and publish what they want (esp. with the internet, it's quite hard to stop people doing that). The Sri Lankan media caters to one extreme to the other - but I think there are very big problems with press freedom in sri lanka:
1. no sri lankan media being has a level of credibility that is accepted by all sides & many look to foreign coverage of Sri Lanka as a credible source.
2. Foreign journalists do not have freedom of movement in Sri Lanka (access to certain N.E. areas began to be cut off in December for foreigners and now only people with MoD approval can travel). So, with many things that happen in the NE, there is no neutral party to report on it – people have to rely on either the government’s version or the other party, which are often quite different.
3. things that happen in the NE tend to be downplayed/ to the tune of the govt. by ‘southern’ media - maybe out of bias, maybe out of lack of credible information, maybe out of indifference.
4. With the amount of journalists killed in Sri Lanka, ‘freedom of the press’ is not something that Sri Lanka can gloat about.
b. Unicef Reports
Unicef (and other UN agencies) do collect a lot of information, but they don’t make much of it public. Their public statements are either vague condemnations or self-promotion. The UN is a government auxiliary, and while I’m not going to go as far as using the word ‘appeasement’, they don’t do much that goes against them.
And sittingnut, I’m not a member of any diaspora (that word has connotations of leaving your home because of hardships/persecution & that is not why my family left sri lanka), I’m barely a tamil, & as for being an LTTE supporter; that would depend on your definition of what a LTTE supporter is (and yours seems to be pretty broad). Both of the comments that you quote do not support the LTTE but criticise something else (in these cases, media, people like you, & landmines). It’s interesting how you perceive that to be the same as being Pro- LTTE. What does that say about you ? ;)
As for the mannar comment:
I recall stories about refugees being beaten with bike chains, the charred bodies of a family (including a 4 year old) found a burnt out, bloody house, fishermen being assaulted, small-scale rioting, and around 30,000 (from mannar, jaffna, trincomalee) people relocating to ltte-controlled areas. Was ALL of that reported in local papers?
My landmine comment:
If you looked at the date, I actually made that comment before the army released extra details, but I still stand by it. Even if the army laid that mine, do you think that they would admit it? The majority of LTTE attacks have been via claymore mines, which are controlled and aimed at military targets, whereas mines maim and kill indiscriminately. I’m not saying that the LTTE is above using them or targeting civilians, but rather that the army isn’t above this either. Do you disagree with this?
It has become a reflex action to blame the LTTE for everything. The first thing that the govt./army did for pararajasingham’s murder, alaipaddy murders, uthayan murders etc. has been to blame the ltte. I personally think that the continual usage of the LTTE as a scapegoat is pathetic, and damages the credibility of the government forces. Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity?
I read some of your earlier stuff. It seems you have changed, or maybe you haven’t, it’s just the times have brought out a different side of you.
You seem to have a lot of anger and resentment against tamils, for eg. not voting in presidential elections, for supporting/tolerating the ltte.
Personally, I don’t know what it’s like to be a tamil in sri lanka. I’ve never been harassed, had my house searched or been scrutinised/interrogated at checkpoints purely for being a tamil. I’ve never had to fear the army, the police, the LTTE or any other group. I’ve never felt that I was unable to do anything or go anywhere in sri lanka because I was tamil. I’ve never been assaulted or seen friends or family assaulted for being tamil. I’ve never been displaced from my home or had to live in a refugee camp. I’m guessing you haven’t experienced any of this either.
Maybe you should discuss with the many Tamils in your social network what it feels like continually being treated as an enemy, & as to why many of their fellow tamils are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing. before you pass judgement on tamils, why not try & see it from a different point of view.
“and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?”
no more right than you do in posting it. But using this boy’s pic to illustrate your point is still in poor taste to me.
ashanthi :
really what do you know about morq and his family? why do you think all the peaceniks are his family ?
are they ? :-)
and why do you think all his family are peaceniks?
if you read you know i make specific accusations and questions reply to them if you can.
as for family killed, what evidence do you have that it was by the military? and if by the army not by rouges(who should be punished) in it?
as you know i have always said if some idiots in army kills innocent ppl they should be punished. and gosl have prosecuted them if there is evidence.
difference is that tigers kill civilians as a policy and rewards the ppl who kill.
btw the family killing was fully reported in media and dbs jeyaraj's post on it with the pics were published. so much for your censorship.
why should i publish them ? i am not in the propaganda business.
you again fail to condemn the ltte.
and if army is killing tamils as you describe, why is it that great majority of tamils ppl always flee to government areas whenever there is war fears, away from ltte areas? do you know how many tamils live in ltte areas compared to government areas and how they live?
unicef report are available, why not read them yourself,about how children are recruited by ltte.
the boy's case was reported all over the media. why not ask his grandmother? name, place of residence all available, unlike allegations in peacenik reports that never ever gives specific data and are always based on unsubstantiated evidence.
are you saying he was not killed by the ltte after all that? are you saying they do not recruit children?
and you say you do not excuse ltte ? ha!
shimmi
as for your thoughts on sl media:
do you know that tamilnet reports and dbs jeyaraj's posts are regularly posted in sl newspapers and other media? that tna mps regularly appear in tv talk shows and comment in newspapers?
that whole interviews with tamilcelvem , bala and co. appear in news papers and on tv ? translated too.
don't peaceniks get whole programs conducted by them?
yes foreign correspondents do have to get permission to travel to ne from both mod and ltte? but are you saying they do not get permission from mod? are there not foreign correspondents in ne at the moment ?
of course individual media outlets have their own povs but then so does all media everywhere.
point out one case where sl public was not exposed to any newsstory at the same level as anybody else elsewhere?
as for gloating about freedom of the press which country has complete freedom of press ? name one? new zealand? :-)
-
as for your being not tamil or part of diaspora , you may call yourself what you wish.
fact is you are not in sl and you jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes
those comments i quoted show that. and that is pro ltte.
and your comments here show that you equate tamils with ltte.
anyway evidence is there anybody can read and judge for themselves. that is why i always quote.
btw as i said before quote me, where have i accused anyone without foundation.
-
if you want to accuse unicef of bias you are free to do so. if you say your position is not affected by a desire to excuse ltte's child recruitment policies you are free to do so too.
as i said and you borrowed, what does that say about you to any reader here? :-)
-
ye,s manner incident was in the local papers, as is the recent one about the family of 4 killed after rape, and church grenade throwing incident, as they are in foreign press. with pics
read before commenting.
why not buy subscriptions to web versions and download sinhala fonts sets and read if you cannot get all the papers there? i assume you can read sinhala and tamil?
and do write to the editors to make their content public for free and update their sites with better design so there is no link roting and standardized fonts. i have done so. more ppl write the better.
-
in landmine incident you made the comment after the details came out. may be you did not read them.
the road used was a one regularly used.why would army lay mines on a road that was used by tourists?
I’m not saying that the LTTE is above using them or targeting civilians, but rather that the army isn’t above this either. Do you disagree with this?
yes . army has not targeted civilians as a policy. some in it have murdered civilians. and they have been investigated, and when there is evidence have been prosecuted. if you do not know, some army ppl are in jail. as they should be imo.
ltte on the other hand do target civilians as a policy (and in some cases specifically to make army or mobs retaliate against tamils , thankfully unsuccessfully for the most part) . they reward those who that.
that is the difference you do not get.
I personally think that the continual usage of the LTTE as a scapegoat is pathetic,
i suppose you think all those attacks made since december were not by ltte ? they were made by ghost perhaps? :-)
do you think recent bus attack was by ghosts too?
after all government 'pathetically' blamed it on ltte didn't it? so ltte must be innocent. that seems to be your logic.
Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity?
to ones they did not? why?
as i said there were prosecutions of military about incidents where there is evidence.
are there any incidents where there is actionable evidence and there was no prosecution?
and some were convicted, some were not convicted.
You seem to have a lot of anger and resentment against tamils, for eg. not voting in presidential elections, for supporting/tolerating the ltte.
as i said qoute me a single sentence i have said against tamils? or anyone else for that matter without foundation.
i definitely do not equate tamils with ltte as you do. you take things i say against ltte as things i say against tamils. your mistake.
Maybe you should discuss with the many Tamils in your social network what it feels like continually being treated as an enemy, & as to why many of their fellow tamils are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing. before you pass judgement on tamils, why not try & see it from a different point of view
if you read this blog as you say, you must have read my repeated comments on the fact the extremists equate tamils with ltte on both sides, and tamils suffer bc of this.
you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed.
do you mean all tamils support ltte as you do ? well they do not. that is where you are wrong.
are you saying they obey ltte willingly? that is where you are wrong. they obey out of fear , and i have said they are cowardly. yes. ones with spine who stand up to ltte get killed. government should help them. and all tamils who recognize ltte for what it is should too.
you of course excuse the ltte, don't assume all tamils are like you.
and you may have noticed what i said in november have come true now bc i was right about ltte. predictions based on facts come true.
“and what right do you have to say my posting of pic was objectionable to him or his family?”
no more right than you do in posting it.
logic is not your strong point is it?
let me get this straight, according to your logic, you accuse me of objectionable conduct(in your opinion) by doing something similar?!
But using this boy’s pic to illustrate your point is still in poor taste to me.
so now you object on grounds of poor taste. as i said above
may be you like me to post only happy pics that does not disturb you ?
do you think hiding human suffering does not 'belittle' it ?
then you said
My objection is not to you using gory/disturbing images
changing your arguments and running away from reality is your problem.
you seems to live in a fantasy world where ltte does no evil. when confronted with a very real pic that disturb it, you accuse me of poor taste .
as you wish.
as you may have seen once in while i do post pics of film actors and actresses. i suppose you like them.
Is this the same Ashanthi of the TRO episode ??? Sittingnut you can safely and completely ignore that chick's comments as she is most of the time far,far,far away from the truth. Her post on TRO was thought provoking and I totally fell for it but gheeeesh we all know how that one went. This chick has far too much time on her hands and some silly thoughts that she augments with long words. One big fart.Do you think she would end up marrying Pada show. Would make a lovely couple.
“as for gloating about freedom of the press which country has complete freedom of press ? name one? new zealand? :-)”
I’m not sure what complete press freedom would be, but according to reporters sans frontières, a bunch of European countries are ranked as the best. New Zealand is the highest non-European county at 12. That sure beats Sri Lanka’s dismal placing at 115. (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15331)
“fact is you are not in sl and you jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes”
Well, with so many blogs around commenting on the bus bomb, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find one since I “jump to ltte's defense whenever anyone in blogosphere criticize ltte in the slightest, excusing their crimes” Why not even find a comment where I criticised their banning, or maybe blame for claymore attacks, or even against aerial strikes. Or will you continue to regurgitate these 2 comments as the sole base to your argument that I’m pro-ltte.
As for me not being is sl, neither is Keshi, you still take her opinions seriously (even if no one else does). Just because I’m overseas now, it doesn’t mean that i’m completely clueless to the ‘ground-realities’ of sri lanka. I was living and working there up until 3 months ago.
“those comments i quoted show that. and that is pro ltte.
and your comments here show that you equate tamils with ltte.?”
I don’t think my comments do equate tamils with ltte (I know that I certainly don’t in real life).
I think it’s just that you find it easier to brand people as pro-ltte that don’t share the same views on terrorism or the sri lankan armed forces/govt. as you do. A bit immature of you don’t you think? For example you constantly say jeyaraj is pro-ltte, when any idiot would be able to tell that he is not (for eg. Check out his articles on prof. hoole fleeing sri lanka or what he thinks of the Canada ban). But I guess using your logic… he’s Tamil AND doesn’t like the government so therefore he must be pro-ltte. Another example in pinkini in another one of her threads, not only did you accuse her of being pro-ltte, but all her arguments/criticisms were too ‘vague’ for you liking.
“if you want to accuse unicef of bias you are free to do so. if you say your position is not affected by a desire to excuse ltte's child recruitment policies you are free to do so too.
as i said and you borrowed, what does that say about you to any reader here? :-)?”
And again, equating any ‘criticism’ of UNICEF as a desire to excuse ltte’s child recruitment is not very mature. Actually, the last unicef statement about child recruitment was criticised by many as being too weak. I never accused the UN of bias, they are a government auxiliary and have to work with the government, so they don’t do much to piss them off. It’s not really seen as bias, because the UN actively works in partnership with the govt. they don’t go against them unless they see it as absolutely necessary (as the UN does in every country). As for UNICEF’s child recruitment policies, I think that they spearheaded an excellent project, Children Affected by War, which targeted underage recruits, children that were vulnerable to joining the LTTE and poverty affected children, in partnership with around 10 NGOs/IGOs, GoSL, and LTTE. I think it was a very proactive way to make a positive change to the lives of children in the N.E., more than condemning statements ever could.
“in landmine incident you made the comment after the details came out. may be you did not read them.
the road used was a one regularly used.why would army lay mines on a road that was used by tourists?”
Well, they could have done it to target ltte, or worst case, blame the ltte. However, i’m not saying that the army did it, because I don’t have any evidence that they did or didn’t.
“army has not targeted civilians as a policy. some in it have murdered civilians. and they have been investigated, and when there is evidence have been prosecuted. if you do not know, some army ppl are in jail. as they should be imo.”
Yes, I do know that there have been a few cases that have gone to trial, and fewer that haven’t resulted in acquittals. But, you’d have a hard time telling people that survived their villages being carpet bombed in 90s or those that have had friends and family ‘disappear’ from checkpoints that the army doesn’t target civilians, or that justice will be delivered to Tamils (or Muslims or anyone).
“i suppose you think all those attacks made since december were not by ltte ? they were made by ghost perhaps? :-) do you think recent bus attack was by ghosts too?
after all government 'pathetically' blamed it on ltte didn't it? so ltte must be innocent. that seems to be your logic.”
I’m not (and I never have) denying that the LTTE does many acts of terrorism. Like I said, the first reaction of things that the armed forces were blatantly guilty of, they blamed the ltte. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Why I should I believe the army that the LTTE did something without evidence when they lie as much as the LTTE do.
Also, paramilitary do have a purpose to in agitating both sides towards war. More than one group have motives for many of the attacks that happen. Without evidence, you may, but I can’t know for certain who’s responsible.
“Could you please tell me of at least one instance of the army/govt. admitting responsibility for at least one atrocity?
to ones they did not? why?”
How about the recent ones in Kayts?
“as i said there were prosecutions of military about incidents where there is evidence.
are there any incidents where there is actionable evidence and there was no prosecution?
and some were convicted, some were not convicted.”
Comparable to the amount of crimes, not many have been convicted (or even tried). How come incidents perpetrated by suspected armed forces need concrete evidence, but ones by the LTTE do not?
“i definitely do not equate tamils with ltte as you do. you take things i say against ltte as things i say against tamils. your mistake.”
Well for starters, you think that they are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing ( I don’t, I was just reflecting your sentiments – from this post). Personally, I don’t like to pass judgement on them for the decisions that they make, because I’ve never been in their shoes. If I was, I doubt I (or you for that matter) would have acted any differently. You may think that tamil lives are worth losing for your right to have UNP in power, but not everyone believes that democracy is worth dying over.
“you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed.’
Like I said, I was just reflecting your opinions.
“do you mean all tamils support ltte as you do ? well they do not. that is where you are wrong.”
I think that Tamil opinion can not be boxed in those who do and those who don’t support the LTTE. The reality is much more complicated as that. As for me supporting the LTTE, just because I don’t like what the government and armed forces do, it doensn’t mean I support/condone the LTTE. Try and understand this, because there are many many tamils in the same position as I am.
“are you saying they obey ltte willingly? that is where you are wrong. they obey out of fear , and i have said they are cowardly.”
Some do obey willingly. Many do out of fear. And like I said earlier, it’s easy to call people cowardly when you haven’t been in their shoes.
“ones with spine who stand up to ltte get killed. government should help them. and all tamils who recognize ltte for what it is should too. But the government doesn’t. And in this current climate, there aren’t many better options for Tamils who recognise what the LTTE is.
you of course excuse the ltte, don't assume all tamils are like you.”
Like I said, I’m barely a tamil by the majority of definitions of what a tamil is, so why would I assume that all tamils are like me?
“as you may have seen once in while i do post pics of film actors and actresses. i suppose you like them.”
Actually, I haven’t seen any. Depending on who they are, I probably would like them though.
As for my thoughts of your usage of this picture, I will write a post about my objections later (right now I have an essay to finish), and I’ll reply to the media comments later.
shimmi
expression 'gloating' over press freedom was taken from your earlier comment. i did not say we gloat over it. it is you who implied we gloat . i said nobody has the right to gloat .
I’m not sure what complete press freedom would be, but according to reporters sans frontières, a bunch of European countries are ranked as the best. New Zealand is the highest non-European county at 12. That sure beats Sri Lanka’s dismal placing at 115.
so ? what is your point ? you do not contradict anything i said.
what does the fact that we have sightly less freedom as defined by rsf than india(106) and higher one than singapore (140), mexico (135) and some thing called 'united states of america in iraq' lower down (137) prove. btw wasn't new zealand part (very small ) of 'coalition of the willing' in iraq originally ? so where was new zealand in iraq? too small for the report? )
on the other hand you have failed to answer the questions i posed regarding media here.
including the main one
point out one case where sl public was not exposed to any newsstory at the same level as anybody else elsewhere?
so instead of running away from the specific questions posed by quoting reports that does not prove anything, why not answer them?
Or will you continue to regurgitate these 2 comments as the sole base to your argument that I’m pro-ltte.
you asked for comments i gave them. and those two prove my point, you did jump to ltte's defence at the slightest criticism. you are doing it here by confusing ltte with tamils. as i said above ppl can read them and judge for themselves. i am not in the mood to go through archives of other ppl's blogs at the moment in order to prove a point that is adequately supported with evidence.
i grant that you have been silent in the blogosphere recently compared with your earlier self esp after this post.
btw the fact that you did not leave any comments recently just proves you did not leave comments recently, not that you approve the ltte ban, attribute blame for claymore mines to ltte or do not mind aerial attacks or that you hold the opposite views. while your comments earlier as i said proves you are pro ltte.
btw in case you forget, quote me, where have i accused anyone without foundation.
As for me not being is sl, neither is Keshi, you still take her opinions seriously (even if no one else does).
question was whether you are part of diaspora that support ltte like the ones in pic, not whether anybody take your opinion seriously . i am replying to you, that should tell you something.
you said you weren't part of diaspora, i said you may call yourself what you wish, but that you are as a fact in new zealand.
those facts still remain true.
as for taking keshi seriously, why shouldn't i? especially if what she says is valid. if you do not agree with her you are free to argue your case. which you fail to do.
as for others not taking her seriously that is your personal opinion. are you jealous or something ? :-)
or may be you are angry that she criticize ltte? is that it ?
Just because I’m overseas now, it doesn’t mean that i’m completely clueless to the ‘ground-realities’ of sri lanka. I was living and working there up until 3 months ago.
so ? as i said question was whether you like those in diaspora who support ltte (and as in pic) subscribe to a bickered view of ltte in spite of the facts on the ground such as the boys being killed for not joining. i think your comments here so far answer that quite clearly.
I think it’s just that you find it easier to brand people as pro-ltte that don’t share the same views on terrorism or the sri lankan armed forces/govt. as you do.
no , you are mistaken . to help you out i will list those i consider pro ltte.
i consider ppl who excuse ltte terrorism as justified and committed on behalf of tamils as pro ltte. i consider those who think ltte is not terrorist as pro ltte, i consider ppl who believe ltte stands and fights for tamils as pro ltte, i consider ppl who take a blinkered view of ltte ad igore its crimes as those in pic as pro ltte. i consider ppl who defend ltte as pro ltte. i consider ppl who think any crime committed by some in military justifies ltte terrorism as pro ltte (crimes committed by military should be investigated and criminals punished but that does not justify ltte)
if you think any of the above should not be considered pro ltte please explain why.
it is clear from your comments here alone that you fall into several of those categories.
A bit immature of you don’t you think?
that i consider above as pro-ltte? not at all imo.
For example you constantly say jeyaraj is pro-ltte, when any idiot would be able to tell that he is not (for eg. Check out his articles on prof. hoole fleeing sri lanka or what he thinks of the Canada ban). But I guess using your logic… he’s Tamil AND doesn’t like the government so therefore he must be pro-ltte.
does he fall into above? yes he does. he believes ltte fights for tamils and is a legitimate representative he excuses their crimes. he gives them advice on how to conduct war and propaganda, he gives ltte version of events when it comes to an attack and try to lesson their horror for propaganda purposes.
that he was almost killed by the ltte ( a fact you seem not to know) or that he speaks on behalf of several ltte victims (whether for personal reasons or bc he think such crimes hurt the ltte cause) does not change that fact. even tamilnet sometimes report on ltte crimes and then spins them. that is what dbs jeyaraj does. some tna mps personally oppose ltte but they speak on behalf of it. dbs jayaraj is in the same place.
to criticize occasionally and even to to call ltte is bad while justifying it and admitting its legitimacy is pro ltte imo.
Another example in pinkini in another one of her threads, not only did you accuse her of being pro-ltte, but all her arguments/criticisms were too ‘vague’ for you liking.
i have dealt with that in detail there. he/she fals within above categories. he/she justifies and excuses ltte crimes by saying military commits crimes too. and she/he is vague when questioned about her/his stand about ltte.
btw why don't you answer the questions i posed there as well.
as i said quote me if i called anyone pro ltte bc he or she is tamil.
And again, equating any ‘criticism’ of UNICEF as a desire to excuse ltte’s child recruitment is not very mature.
as i said, you are free to say unicef is biased and toady towards governments (and that is what you implied ) . you are free to think that things like the above pic does not happen and ppl who post them have bad taste. you are free to think that while ltte handover some children to unicef they do not recruit others. you are free to think that not criticizing ltte child recruitment while helping some children will solve the problem. you are free to ignore reality . and as i said readers are free to think what kind of person you are .
Well, they could have done it to target ltte, or worst case, blame the ltte. However, i’m not saying that the army did it, because I don’t have any evidence that they did or didn’t.
target the ltte in a park that is frequented by tourists on a road frequently used by them?
and you think army deliberately targets civilians to blame ltte ? as i said you can claim you do not excuse ltte while doing that. but let readers judge.
But, you’d have a hard time telling people that survived their villages being carpet bombed in 90s or those that have had friends and family ‘disappear’ from checkpoints that the army doesn’t target civilians, or that justice will be delivered to Tamils (or Muslims or anyone).
well that is army's pr problem. while ppl who have lost friends and relatives due to so called 'collateral damage' and some idiot going beserk( as happens in all conflicts), will understandably entertain irrational theories, question is do you as a rational person believe that military deliberately targets civilians? you have not put forward any evidence to say that military deliberately target civilians as ltte does.
Like I said, the first reaction of things that the armed forces were blatantly guilty of, they blamed the ltte. It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Why I should I believe the army that the LTTE did something without evidence when they lie as much as the LTTE do.
you are right not to believe everything army says nobody does, it like its counterparts everywhere try to defend its own, but unlike ltte it submits to investigations and as you admit some military are in prison. but you go further than not believing the army in your desire to excuse the ltte you imply that army deliberately targets civilians on no evidence at all.
Also, paramilitary do have a purpose to in agitating both sides towards war. More than one group have motives for many of the attacks that happen. Without evidence, you may, but I can’t know for certain who’s responsible.
you are free to believe that and blame it all on 'paramilitaries' . do you know who else does that regularly ? ltte.
How about the recent ones in Kayts?
is there not a investigation. ? are you telling me that they have convicted those responsible and that government did not accept responsibility?
given that suspicion fell on some military and epdb government did what it is supposed to do, it initiated an investigation . it cannot accept responsibility before the investigation is finished. reasonable suspicions on the other hand are free to be expressed and i and others think some in military are responsible. and when buffalo says it will be investigated and those responsible punished (which is all he can do or say)does he mean ltte ?
Comparable to the amount of crimes, not many have been convicted (or even tried). How come incidents perpetrated by suspected armed forces need concrete evidence, but ones by the LTTE do not?
bc armed forces work within the law and if they breach the law they should be convicted according to law .
are you telling that government should convict without evidence ? if you have evidence for the crimes please come forward and give evidence so we may have more cases and more convictions. and yes ppl will get away with crimes if evidence is lacking. but ppl are free to express their suspicions about those responsible.
as for ltte you may believe that others (army bent on blaming ltte, paramilitaries etc) use suicide bombers , that others deliberately target civilians, etc but so far only ltte has done that and convicted of them before.
question is whether you are being reasonable or whether you have reasonable grounds for suspecting the army, paramilitaries etc.
that is why i always say let readers judge whether a person who insist on evidence about wilpattu land mine attack and then ignore the evidence available is acting rationally or from other motives.
Well for starters, you think that they are spineless and susceptible to brainwashing ( I don’t, I was just reflecting your sentiments – from this post).
cowards yes. brainwashing ? where did i say that ? as i say quote me .
Personally, I don’t like to pass judgement on them for the decisions that they make, because I’ve never been in their shoes. If I was, I doubt I (or you for that matter) would have acted any differently. You may think that tamil lives are worth losing for your right to have UNP in power, but not everyone believes that democracy is worth dying over.
you say you wont judge them, not being in their shoes etc. and then you do exactly that and assume the right to speak for them.
i agree they did not think democracy is not worth dying for and i say they are cowards bc of that.(shortsighted ones too as i said then) i will say so again.
“you do that yourself in the sentence by assuming tamils are brainwashed.’
Like I said, I was just reflecting your opinions.
like i said quote me about brainwashing . i said they acted like cowards not zoombies
I think that Tamil opinion can not be boxed in those who do and those who don’t support the LTTE. The reality is much more complicated as that. As for me supporting the LTTE, just because I don’t like what the government and armed forces do, it doensn’t mean I support/condone the LTTE. Try and understand this, because there are many many tamils in the same position as I am.
you are right that opinion in general cannot be boxed.
but when it comes to a specific thing the like support for ltte one has only two options and ppl can be boxed; either one support it or do not..
there is no middle course in such questions. either you approve what is in one picture or what is in the other. you cannot say you do not want to see it or that one is free to ignore it bc it is disgusting. facts are facts
i say tamils do not support ltte . they obey it out of fear.
where do you stand? but your comment as i have shown above gives you away.
Some do obey willingly. Many do out of fear. And like I said earlier, it’s easy to call people cowardly when you haven’t been in their shoes.
ppl who live in fear are cowards. there is no moral judgment in it, it is a fact, almost a definition. you said exactly what i said. and in contradiction of rest of your comment. and theirs cowardice let the boy above down and let him be killed while they looked the other way due to fear,while the ppl in other pic murdered him or as good as.
now do you accept that to remove the fear we have to defeat or contain ltte ? do you accept that may result in death of innocents?
Like I said, I’m barely a tamil by the majority of definitions of what a tamil is, so why would I assume that all tamils are like me?
it doesn't matter you are tamil or sinhalese or whatever (most of the peaceniks are sinhalese after all and they too assume ltte is justified like you ) . you excused the ltte and justified their actions bc you assumed tamils support ltte. that is what matters.
As for my thoughts of your usage of this picture, I will write a post about my objections later (right now I have an essay to finish), and I’ll reply to the media comments later.
looking forward to seeing the post and be sure to link the it here.
and good luck with the essay, if you want to check for unwarranted assumptions, errors on logic, lack of evidence etc. in it, i will be glad to help. :-)
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