Sunday, November 05, 2006

justice served

a butcher called saddam hussein got what he deserved today and some of his victims got some justice if not closure. trial wasn't perfect but still valid. just as importantly, it and the other planed trials (that may not be held anyway if coward who was caught in a hole get hanged) resulted in collection of voluminous evidence that will make it hard for any serious apologist for the mass murderer to disagree now or in the future, in the same way that documented evidence against nazis make all the holocaust denier's claims ridiculous.

that of course will not prevent apologists from emerging. there will always be people who will miss the obvious truths and select the half truths to further their own agendas (whether it be irrational hatred of americans (and /or current administration) or irrational devotion to religious fundamentalism or any other such idiocy) and there will be even larger number of people unable to think for themselves, who will naively parrot the first group's claims with total disregard to reality and facts.

here in sri lanka too we see people especially peaceniks in some ngos, justifying and acting as apologists to a convicted mass murdering terrorist and his cronies. here too there are lots of parrots who repeat the claims and demands of peaceniks and pussies (latest is the opening of a9) without critically examining them, with the result that they clam up and/or start spouting obscenities repeatedly when confronted with facts. let's hope at least some of them will eventually realize that appeasing terrorists in search of a peace at the cost of justice, freedom, human rights and democracy is not going to result in a sustainable peace. peace will only result when the justice is served and as part of it bunker holed big pussy get what he deserves. since that is not likely to happen soon given the reality, let’s be clear and realistic about what it will take to defeat him in a morally defensible and pragmatic way and the time it will take. after all other options are not feasible.

for my own part i have no doubt justice will be served here as in iraq eventually.


Anonymous said...

He deserved it. Hope he will be prosecuted for all his crimes

Sam said...

I just post a comment on [] about the same topic. So I just copy and paste the same here too.
Without Saddam Iraq is a disaster. More people died in Iraq last year alone, than under Saddam’s 23 year dictatorship. I’m not saying Saddam is a good person. But he knew how to control people in his part of the world one way or another. That part of the world and where we live right now is totally deferent, deferent people, deferent rules, and deferent leaders. As an example, in Iraq every household allow to keep an AK-47. I’m pretty sure that is for a reason. Deferent people ~ deferent set of rules.
Iraq worsens right now than how it was used to be under the dictator. Even we - Sri Lankan still paying price for so call ‘brining justice’. Petrel price is still higher in SL. Justice should make things better for everyone. Not worsen.

Bottom line is none cares about Justice or democracy in Iraq. They only care about Oil and wanted political instability in Middle East. None care about Justice in anywhere else either. Where is the Justice in Darfur? Justice ~ Bullshit!
Yes. We can compare Saddam and Sri Lanka.
In Sri Lanka LTTE took a united country and trying to break it. In Iraq, US took a united country form Saddam and trying to break it! I hope what happened in Iraq will not happen in Sri Lanka. We already have face exactly similar situation in Kandian era. It took 132 years to take British out of Sri Lanka. British wanted to divide Sri Lanka but they had to leave before it is completed leaving the job in hand of certain people still working on it.

Call me selfish. But I’m not happy I have to pay higher price for petrol because some one wants to ‘bring justice’. I like the way how it was.

aadhavan said...

er....hold that thought for a minute. My history tells me the British actually tried to and succeeded in uniting the country. For reasons best known to them, but to suggest that the first really successful unifiers of the territory on the island tried to divide it is ridiculous.

Electra said...

there is no justice in killing, no matter what. this is not justice for the thousands of people who've suffered at saddam's hands and their families? is this going to make everything ok for them? is this going to take everything they went through back?

i'm not pro-saddam at all, he's a despot with selfish goals who would have stopped at nothing to get what he wants, much like hitler. but what the bush regime did was not justice. they aren't trying to solve iraq's problems, they couldn't care less.

this is only another failure, another death. its not going to make anything that has happened right again. its not going to make anyone that deserves it whole again.

the US is just going to race out of there soon and leave another (if not worse) despotic government to govern iraq, its just that this time, it'll be under THEIR control and will do exactly as THEY please.

ddm said...

electra - as for the families that suffered at saddam's hands, nothing can bring back what they lost. but, it is important that they feel that the one who caused their ills does not get off scott free, and in that sense, this is justice. its quite hard to justify allowing saddam to get away with what he did. unless you mean letting him languish in a jail cell till death, but that imo is a far more painful option than a quick death.

aadhavan said...

I don't think the iraqi government will do as America pleases. Already the rifts seem to be appearing between the Maliki administration and khalilzad. I read that maliki also ordered the US troops to call off the seige on sadr city.

Sweet Idiot said...

I agree with Electra -
No human being has the right to kill anyone else...not even in punishment. That decision is not ours to make. Plus it doesn't really make things all better now does it?

Anonymous said...

Saddam is a tyrant and a dictator. He behaved just like any other dictator would behave if he is challenged or someone tried to kill him. But this does not justify the use of chemical and biological weapons against the Kurds or the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war. No one wants to talk about who supplied the chemical and biological weapons to him when he was an ally of the west. Whatever said and done he was the president of Iraq for more than two decade. He should have been given a fair trial at a neutral country. Violence creates more violence. Hate creates more hate. It is not Saddam who is going to be killed but the world justice with him. God save the world.

Electra said...

ddm : you're right, is death really the 'ultimate penalty', as bush calls it?

sweet idiot : my problems aren't with purely the moral issue here, its only partially that. its not about god or humans trying to play god or whatever. its about the redundancy, the futility, the hypocrisy. is it really solving anything? is making any part of this even somewhat right?

sittingnut said...

below is a comment i left in electra blog on this topic. i think it has some relevance to some points made here. sorry that i am little too busy right now to respond in details to every one here, will do later, meanwhile thanks for commenting everyone. :-)
for the record i too have "mixed up, confused feelings and opinions" about capital punishment ( though perhaps not confused ones). while i oppose it , i will not make generalized statements like "capital punishment is always wrong". every case is different from each other. specifics and details are all important. in fact my main objection to capital punishment is its non reversible generalized quality. ( an objection that can be arguably overridden in this particular case, while imo it cannot be argued against in most capital punishment cases). if that does not make sense, sorry, I may write more on this more clearly in my blog later if i get some free time.

we are all selfish and act almost exclusively on selfish motives. that is not a crime. ( i am always surprised at the way some ppl assume it is ; recently there was a sl blog post somewhere about why we fight the war and listed various selfish reasons ( as opposed to altruistic motives we put forward ) that underly the war as if they are "wrong", i was too busy at the time to respond). it is how we go about furthering our selfish interests that will be judged, case by case, esp if we lose.

in the end ppl are free to choose and are thus responsible for their actions however "complex" their reasons. "system " is not an excuse.

saddam was not judged bc he was selfish . he was convicted bc he killed specific ppl in a way that exceeded what most ppl ( and law regarding crimes against humanity) consider acceptable. when that happens ppl demand justice. ( which btw is not revenge but let's not get in to that question or whether we need justice, now, this comment is too lengthy as is ). anyway if we accept justice as a one of the pre conditions of civilized human society, justice was served yesterday. will it make everything ok ? no, it is only one part of what is required.

btw i don't think bush is "crazy". his actions with regard to iraq were rational ( whether we accept his idealistic neo conservative agenda, or his alleged selfish real politic agenda ). imo history will judge him and all those who took the collective decision democratically under his leadership with him much more kindly than certain type of ppl do right now. while there is not much room for such change of opinion about saddam.

jiffyspaceman said...

sitingnut says:

"here in sri lanka too we see people especially peaceniks in some ngos, justifying and acting as apologists to a convicted mass murdering terrorist and his cronies."

add to that list finland. today the fins (currently holding the EU presidency?) decided to appeal for international intervention in bringing to book those groups responsible for the recent spate of civilian abductions and sectarian killings in sri lanka. they clearly have no confidence that our govt can be trusted. the fins obviously know that at least some of these killings are paramilitary operations. but what's their beef? heck, america and india know this too, but the last time the fins brought it up they yanks and curries both backed sri lanka. seems the fins are back with a vengence this time.

how many fins even know where sl is on the map? i don't get it: how can a govt take this course of action without its own population giving a rats arse about the issue? do fins give a shit?

~CC~ said...

i'm rather surprised to learn you support the death penalty sittingnut. i

But i think proper that Iraqis themselves convicted saddam, and not some 'neutral country'. Death penalty is consistent with Iraqi Law. so they imposed it, cant fault the courts for that.

I also differ with electra when she says Bush regime couldnt care less about Iraqis problems when in fact Iraqi’s ARE bush's problem. Maybe what's goin on in iraq is shit, Maybe its bush's fault. But just because justice on one hand is not delivered it doesn’t mean the other hand should also be denied of the same. I believe here justice (to an extent) was served, it wasn't perfect - but then again, what is?


on a side note, good point on unity aadhavan. some ppl are just ignorant :) its always somebody else's fault. not us.



ashanthi said...

Frankly - why would you kill this bastard and make him a saint - imagine that. In some people's mind Saddam will now transcend his horrendous existence on Earth - he'll be somebody's saviour and defender of faith.

He should be locked up and questioned on all that he knows about the following:-

1. What he did with his arsenal
2. How many people he killed
3. His real links to terrorists

It would take the rest of his lifetime to probably extract just a little about him - however, the information that would be gained would be invaluable and we would break the the cycle or killing.

Saddam has stood one trial - but he needs to stand on-going and continuing trials. He needs to be brought face to face to the people he has killed. The mothers, the fathers, the children, the soldiers.

And so should it be for all men who use power to inflict crimes against humanity and their own people.

As i said in Electra's blog - we've got our own legitamate Saddams who the Yanks support - the present GOSL for one.

America created Saddam - they should definitely have a say in getting rid of him but like most of their foreign policy today they have chosen to take the higher moral ground and dish out their supposed version of justice.

If Saddam is killed - the trial will become a show trial and the monster that is Saddam will live.

He should be locked up, the key thrown away and all but a few intelligence and criminal psyche doctors should have access to him.